DUI laws and The Minority Report

[Probie]

I hit post and it didnt tell me another post had been...well posted!

I want to get set-up on the irc, but 12 said no one idles there.

[ivan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE#noexternalembed

[Probie]

Yeah I know, I watched it the other night! I think I prefer holy grail though!

[Demosthenes]

I hit post and it didnt tell me another post had been...well posted!

I want to get set-up on the irc, but 12 said no one idles there.

I'm in there almost every day, as is Biz, most of the time.

[ivan]

I got the another post notification, but blithely ignored it, thus perpetuating the misunderstanding. And my BAC is like 0% right now.

[ivan]

How do you guys get any work done? I'm only ever in one place at a time, and it still conflicts with my... oops, gotta go.

[Demosthenes]

How do you guys get any work done? I'm only ever in one place at a time, and it still conflicts with my... oops, gotta go.

<---- Unemployed. 

[BizB]

<---- bad attitude

[Probie]

<--------- Clumsy

[Novice]

<----- was smoking hookah. Actually was about to reply but realized I was just on page 2.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8#noexternalembed

[ivan]

<---------------- Slightly more caught up.

Like removing a bucketful of water from the ocean.

[Detta]

<------------------ Missed the party.

School's back in.

[xolik]

<------------------ Missed the party.

School's back in.

Yeah, I know. I'm back doing my night classes again. At least this semester should be my last one providing I pass these last two classes. Hooray for finally getting a crappy two year degree! 

[Wunderkind]

On a completely off topic, topic, I still can't appreciate enough how I, as your waitress, can get fined my entire year's salary or more just because you are an irresponsible jackass who drank too much got behind the wheel of a car and got into an accident. Somehow it's my fault you don't know when to quit drinking.

It's like waiting on a child, I'm counting your drinks, talking to you, not because I like you or because I'm falling for your bad jokes and pick up lines, but because I'm responsible for when to cut you off when you've had enough.  WTH?

[Joe Sixpack]

Wow! That really took off.

First of all, props to Teh Geekery for discussing an unpopular subject intelligently and not just flaming the poster (I assume that was all taken care of via shoutbox and PM).

There's kind of an interesting dynamic going on here. I would guess that most members, or at least frequent posters here would fall into the libertarian/small government camp, yet there is a sentiment that having the police/the state/the government arrest people for harm they have not yet caused (I am avoiding the word "crime" on purpose) is not only OK, but something we should possibly do more of, or at least penalize more harshly.

[BizB]

there is a sentiment that having the police/the state/the government arrest people for harm they have not yet caused (I am avoiding the word "crime" on purpose) is not only OK, but something we should possibly do more of, or at least penalize more harshly.

I disagree strongly with that statement.

[12AX7]

 I disagree as well; I think it fits perfectly. The underlying 'reason' for proponents of arrest is to punish for irresponsible behavior. The Libertarian/Small Gov camp (as I understand) holds personal responsibilty as paramount. I think the sentiment is more "if someone is that irresponsible; stop them before they encroach on me or mine".

[Joe Sixpack]

Would you say that if the subject were, say, carbon tax instead of DUI?

"if someone is that irresponsible; stop them before they encroach on me or mine".

This is such a slippery slope... the implications are just horrific. When they encroach on you or yours is when your rights have been violated. Not before.

[12AX7]

Would you say that if the subject were, say, carbon tax instead of DUI?

? Please explain. I'm not following you on this one. Are you implying that driving in itself is irresponsible (to the environment), and that a carbon tax is essentially functioning the same as an arrest for DUI?

This is such a slippery slope... the implications are just horrific. When they encroach on you or yours is when your rights have been violated. Not before.

  That is true. I did say, however, the sentiment is...  not that more restrictive laws be passed. The fact is, however, like it or not; the law is "driving while impaired IS a crime." It has nothing to actually do with my or any others' (uninvolved) rights; being violated or not.

[Joe Sixpack]

? Please explain. I'm not following you on this one. Are you implying that driving in itself is irresponsible (to the environment), and that a carbon tax is essentially functioning the same as an arrest for DUI?

I'm saying that polluting is seen as irresponsible and can easily be legislated that way, and for a consequence that may or may not ever occur. Are you for the state punishing CO2 spewers?
The point is that lots of things can be seen as irresponsible in some way or another.

[12AX7]

  Aren't we already taxed on fuels, tho? Fuel has the highest tax applied that I'm aware of. So I would have to oppose a carbon tax on the stance that I've already BEEN taxed at the pump (for auto fuel) and in my power bill (the tax utilities pay on fuels is passed on to you and I).

  And it's true; many things are irresponsible, many more could be considered irresponsible depending on circumstance; but few have the enormity of impact that impaired drivers do. Since it IS a society; when one activity begins to stand out as a killer of so many innocent people; it needs to be addressed in some fashion.

[ivan]

YOU LIE!

[Joe Sixpack]

So we shouldn't be allowed to smoke. Kills lots of people.
We shouldn't be allowed to drive cars at all. Kill lots of people.
We shouldn't be able to fuck. Lots of diseases and all.
We shouldn't be able to go outside, skin cancer, you know.
Wars are out of the question, of course.
Got it.

[ivan]

Sorry, that just sort of burst out of me appropos of nothing.

I would guess that most members, or at least frequent posters here would fall into the libertarian/small government camp, yet there is a sentiment that having the police/the state/the government arrest people for harm they have not yet caused (I am avoiding the word "crime" on purpose) is not only OK, but something we should possibly do more of, or at least penalize more harshly.

All the on-line political positioning quizzes I've taken always drop me in the left-libertarian quadrant. Many of my friends here drop into the right-libertarian quadrant. So there are some key differences, mostly in this area of debate: if government, however small we can manage to keep it, is to have ANY function, what would that function be?

My left-libertarian opinion is that government's primary job is to serve and protect the citizenry in areas where individuals cannot feasibly serve and protect themselves. Issues of traffic control (a subject I obsess about) are a flashpoint in debates about personal responsibility vs. governemnt control.

The problem here is that no amount of personal responsibility on my part can protect me from people who can't, for whatever reason, drive in a way that does not endanger me. So whatever rules and regulations people come up with to slow everyone the fuck down and reduce fatalities are fine with me.

This is not a constitutional issue. Driving fast and drunk is not a goddam right.

[ivan]

So we shouldn't be allowed to smoke. Kills lots of people.
We shouldn't be allowed to drive cars at all. Kill lots of people.
We shouldn't be able to fuck. Lots of diseases and all.
We shouldn't be able to go outside, skin cancer, you know.
Wars are out of the question, of course.
Got it.

You smoking does not kill me. Go ahead and smoke. You fucking does not infect me. Go ahead and fuck. You going outside does not affect me. Go ahead and go outside.

Now, your driving can affect me, especially if you are unable to stay in your goddam lane. I prefer you not drive at all, but I'll settle for asking that you at least be able to properly operate that deadly machine of yours.

And wars should be out of the question.