Topic: Algebra (Read 17973 times)

Evonus · « **on:** February 16, 2007, 02:33:33 AM »

No I don't mean the class, I mean the actual doing of algebra. I didn't mind it so much when I was in Algebra I and II and the examples were designed to work, but now that I have to do it in the real world, solving for tens of variables I find it very aggravating, especially on nights like tonight, where I work through a problem for 45 minutes, only to find that I have a negative concentration of something, or a product stream rate equal to zero, or the same constant equaling two different values. I wish there was some magical program that would solve my systems of equations for me so I wouldn't have to spend my time tears and blood solving something so painful and tedious.

Min · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:23:00 AM »

I think he's just trying to get me to post.

12AX7 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:36:36 AM »

Seems to have worked. A little bit.

BizB · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:25:10 AM »

komputars are dum lol

hackess · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2007, 12:45:35 PM »

For someone who says he's good with logic and debate, you'd think you'd be able to handle some algebra.

Evonus · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2007, 12:53:17 PM »

Quote from: catwritr on February 16, 2007, 12:45:35 PM

For someone who says he's good with logic and debate, you'd think you'd be able to handle some algebra.

Oh this isn't just "some" algebra. These kinds of problems usually involve over 10 variables and take up about 1.5-2.5 pages per problem. It took me 8 hours to do my 6 problem homework assignment last night. This is the devil's algebra. Seriously, this algebra makes the multi variable calculus problems I had to do last semester look concise.

ivan · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2007, 12:55:45 PM »

I thought you said this was the "real world".

It's still homework, and solutions exist.

You just have to vault to the next level and solve them.

GO!

ivan · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2007, 12:56:38 PM »

And go ahead and post a problem. Even if this turns into a "Please Do My Homework For Me" thread, I still would like a crack at one.

ivan · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2007, 12:57:39 PM »

Is it anything like Sudokku?

pbsaurus · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:08:06 PM »

Use statistical software like SAS.

ivan · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:16:45 PM »

Don't you SAS me!

SASSY MOLASSY!

pbsaurus · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:21:47 PM »

sjingle jangley moljingle jangley

Anyanka_was_framed · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:26:12 PM »

Quote from: ivan on February 16, 2007, 12:55:45 PM

I thought you said this was the "real world".

It's still homework, and solutions exist.

You just have to vault to the next level and solve them.

GO!

I wasn't aware that algebra was good for the RL stuff. I haven't yet come across any math above simple addition or subtraction...

ivan · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:30:41 PM »

Oh, there are tons of RL engineering problems that require more that addition and subtraction. Triangulation, for instance.

Evonus · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:31:03 PM »

Quote from: Anyanka_was_framed on February 16, 2007, 01:26:12 PM

I wasn't aware that algebra was good for the RL stuff. I haven't yet come across any math above simple addition or subtraction...

That's because you aren't going to college to be an engineer.

ivan · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:33:02 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus on February 16, 2007, 01:21:47 PM

sjingle jangley moljingle jangley

Exactly.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:43:46 PM »

I use algebra in the real world at work. Pricing models can get pretty sophisticated. I also do linear regressions every once in a while.

Evonus · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:44:49 PM »

Quote from: ivan on February 16, 2007, 12:56:38 PM

And go ahead and post a problem. Even if this turns into a "Please Do My Homework For Me" thread, I still would like a crack at one.

Well the homework was already due, but just to humor you I'll post the problem I couldn't figure out.

"The fresh feed to an ammonia production process contains nitrogen and hydrogen in stoichiometric proportion, along with an inert gas, I. The feed is combined with a recycle stream containing the same three species, and the combined stream is fed to a reactor in which a low single-pass conversion of nitrogen is achieved. The reactor effluent flows to a condenser. A liquid stream containing essentially all of the ammonia formed in the reactor is and a gas stream containing all the inerts and the unreacted hydrogen and nitrogen leave the condenser. The gas stream is split into two fractions with the same composition: one is removed from the process as a purge stream, and the other is the recycle stream combined with the fresh feed. In every stream containing nitrogen and hydrogen, the two species are in stoichiometric proportion.

a) Let X(I0) be the mole fraction of inerts in the fresh feed, fsp the single pass conversion of nitrogen(and of hydrogen) in the reactor, and yp the fraction of the gas leaving the condenser that is purged(mols purged/mols total). Taking a basis of 1 mol of fresh feed, draw and label a process flowchart incoporating X(IO), Fsp, and yp in the labeling. Then assuming the values for these equations is given write a set of possible equations for the total moles fed to the reactor (nr), moles of ammonia produced (np), and overall nitrogen conversion(fov). Each equation should involve only one unknown variable, which should be circled.

b)Solve the equations in part a is X(I0) = .01 Fsp = .20 and yp =.10"

I got a set of equations for a that should've worked, but upon plugging in the numbers and doing the algebra I wound up getting that no ammonia was produced, which makes the entire system pointless, so I'm assuming I made an error. If you want the equations I'm sure I can rederive them if you don't feel like starting from scratch.

Min · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:46:36 PM »

Quote from: ivan on February 16, 2007, 01:16:45 PM

SASSY MOLASSY!

You rang?

A job in which I could do algebra all day long is a dream for me. Yay, I get to live my dream!!!

ivan · « **Reply #19 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:16:15 PM »

Quote from: Detta on February 16, 2007, 01:46:36 PM

You rang?

IT WORKED!!!

Quote from: Detta on February 16, 2007, 01:46:36 PM

A job in which I could do ivan all day long is a dream for me. Yay, I get to live my dream!!!

ME TOO!!!

ivan · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:27:23 PM »

Quote from: Evonus on February 16, 2007, 01:44:49 PM

Well the homework was already due, but just to humor you I'll post the problem I couldn't figure out.

"The fresh feed to an ammonia production process contains nitrogen and hydrogen in stoichiometric proportion, along with an inert gas, I. The feed is combined with a recycle stream containing the same three species, and the combined stream is fed to a reactor in which a low single-pass conversion of nitrogen is achieved. The reactor effluent flows to a condenser. A liquid stream containing essentially all of the ammonia formed in the reactor is and a gas stream containing all the inerts and the unreacted hydrogen and nitrogen leave the condenser. The gas stream is split into two fractions with the same composition: one is removed from the process as a purge stream, and the other is the recycle stream combined with the fresh feed. In every stream containing nitrogen and hydrogen, the two species are in stoichiometric proportion.

a) Let X(I0) be the mole fraction of inerts in the fresh feed, fsp the single pass conversion of nitrogen(and of hydrogen) in the reactor, and yp the fraction of the gas leaving the condenser that is purged(mols purged/mols total). Taking a basis of 1 mol of fresh feed, draw and label a process flowchart incoporating X(IO), Fsp, and yp in the labeling. Then assuming the values for these equations is given write a set of possible equations for the total moles fed to the reactor (nr), moles of ammonia produced (np), and overall nitrogen conversion(fov). Each equation should involve only one unknown variable, which should be circled.

b)Solve the equations in part a is X(I0) = .01 Fsp = .20 and yp =.10"

I got a set of equations for a that should've worked, but upon plugging in the numbers and doing the algebra I wound up getting that no ammonia was produced, which makes the entire system pointless, so I'm assuming I made an error. If you want the equations I'm sure I can rederive them if you don't feel like starting from scratch.

nr = {(X(IO) ^ fsp/(np*fov)) / (1/yp) + (M&M*NWA^1/ELO)} / 3

Substituting in the values in part b), we get

nr = {252 / 2} / 3 = 42

Which we pretty much knew going into it.

Evonus · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:29:49 PM »

Quote from: ivan on February 16, 2007, 02:27:23 PM

nr = {(X(IO) ^ fsp/(np*fov)) / (1/yp) + (M&M*NWA^1/ELO)} / 3

Substituting in the values in part b), we get

nr = {252 / 2} / 3 = 42

Which we pretty much knew going into it.

Somehow your logic seems slightly flawed.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:36:15 PM »

The answer is 42

ivan · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:36:57 PM »

Exactly.

ivan · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:38:06 PM »

Quote from: Evonus on February 16, 2007, 02:29:49 PM

Somehow your logic seems slightly flawed.

Well, at least there's no danger of this becoming a "do my homework for me" thread.

At least not from me!

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Author Topic: Algebra (Read 17973 times)

12AX7