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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[TerrorDronze]

So, here's an interesting, if disturbing, time-travel paradox to fuck with your brains a little bit:

A man discovers time travel.  While this, in the wonderful land of Hypotheticalsituationalia is not entirely uncommon, he chooses to use it to test what could be considered a legal paradox, and decides to go back in time to rape himself.

That's right...  He rapes himself.  Stop looking at me like that, hypothetical people can get seriously fucked up at times.

Anyhow, the man goes back in time, forces himself on his earlier self, and goes back to his own time.  Here's where the interesting question comes in:  Was this a convict-able rape, or just a really disturbing masturbatory act?  On one hand, he did force himself on himself against his previous self's will.  On the other hand, given that the 2 individuals are, barring a bit of temporal displacement, the same person, it could be viewed as the equivalent to a really disturbing rub-and-tug involving a severely conflicted individual, who was, indeed, a willing participant in his own "rape," thus nullifying the claim.

So...  Is it rape, or not, and if it is rape, what should the punishment for it be?

Just a bit of a brain bender to get your brain working and trying to find the bleach to deal with the images generated....

[Wunderkind]

I don't think he could be tried in court because he would be ruled 'mentally unfit'.

EDIT: Just think about how it sounds in court:

"Your Honor, I am going to prove that I am guilty of raping myself and I should be sent to prison!"

Besides I don't think cases can be tried where the victim and perpetrator are the same person.

I am not a law student, I simply recall something about this in the Law 101 class I had to complete for college credits.

[Novice]

Hm.. I wonder if legal paradoxes are affected by post-selection. If they are, we would have a pretty boring thread because you would most likely fail at raping yourself. So, I'll assume they aren't . .

Actually, I still don't have that great of an idea on this. There would probably be no evidence unless the time traveler took a picture or something, so whoever's charging the time traveler would have to rely on the time traveler's confession. But, then again, the time traveler is the defendant as well . .

In that case, why do we need time travel? What if I tried to charge myself with rape against myself right now in our non-hypothetical world? What other proof would you have besides my own confession? Would you be forced to convict me?

How about another hypothetical: I bash my car windows in with a bat to "ruin my future self's car". Can I be convicted for some crime against my future self? Does the direction of time travel matter?

YEAH ANSWER THAT



....

EDIT: I suppose if the past time traveler could prove he/she was raped, then there would be evidence which could be shown in the time-traveler's own time which could count as proof. But the whole defendant is also the accused problem is the same.

[TerrorDronze]

How about another hypothetical: I bash my car windows in with a bat to "ruin my future self's car". Can I be convicted for some crime against my future self? Does the direction of time travel matter?

You can't really be tried for damaging what is currently your own property, regardless of who it will be transferred to in the future, as it is your property when you do the damage.  Based on this information, damaging your future self's car is completely legal, provided, of course, that you are the holder of the title at the time when the damage was done.  The car is your own private property, and you can do with it what you please, I believe that, in a lot of ways, the saying is "Caveat emptor" when it comes to a transfer of property over a given span of time, as you would have had to have chosen to keep the vehicle after intentionally damaging it in order for it to be your future self's car to begin with.

All this having been said, the example given in the opening post does assume that the future individual is taking action on a separate body, albeit his own, against the wishes of the previous iteration.

This particular interaction depends on the individual being of 2 distinctly different mindsets between the point of the rape and the point of the time travel, so backwards time travel would be the only way to stage the act without the victim having ample foreknowledge of it and running the risk of preventing the occurance to begin with.  If the time traveller went forward in time, as opposed to back, then it would be reasonable to assume that he would have memories of previously going forward and raping himself before the event in question actually occured.

[pbsaurus]

So what acts did he do to himself? 

[pbsaurus]

Oh and can the hypothetical person be Hannibal Smith from the A-Team?

[Novice]

This particular interaction depends on the individual being of 2 distinctly different mindsets between the point of the rape and the point of the time travel, so backwards time travel would be the only way to stage the act without the victim having ample foreknowledge of it and running the risk of preventing the occurance to begin with.

Not to keep trying to ruin your hypothetical or anything, but let's take another example besides property damage. Let's say I pull out my handgun one day and decide I want to shoot myself. For this purpose, let's say I don't want to actually kill myself, just put a bullet in my body. And let's say, hypothetically, there is enough time between me firing the gun and the bullet hitting my body for me to change my mind. That is, while the bullet is leaving the gun and while it is in the air, I start to regret the act of firing the gun at myself.

If I have a complete change of heart between pulling the trigger and getting hit by the bullet, could this not also be two distinct mindsets? And if not, why not? I don't have time to move out of the way of the bullet, so I can't prevent the occurance. I just have enough time to regret the decision and vow justice on my previous self. I go to the hospital, and tell the cops it was me from before and ask them to charge 'him' (me) with, perhaps, attempted murder. I don't care that I wasn't actually trying to kill myself. I'm just mad that I tried and I want justice!

In this example, they could and would charge me with something but it wouldn't be attempted murder or even assault with a deadly weapon (unless the attorney was you). My point is that I don't think the flow of time should matter and I don't think having different mindsets matter. I don't think in either of our hypothetical situations, the subject could get the same conviction as they would if they were raping or shooting someone else.

[TerrorDronze]

By the same token, your own example is a daily occurance, someone does something stupid and almost immediately regrets it, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and wants to blame something or someone for it, be it eating a piece of cheesecake or mutilating one's own body.  These are both cases of simple cause and effect.  Yes, you did shoot yourself.  No, aside from the potential of mis-utilization of emergency services, no crime was committed, the gun was in your own hand the whole time.  Conversely, in the case of the self-raping man, the rapist and the victim are different iterations of the same individual, simply separated by the passage of time.  They are not, in a physical sense, the same object in 3-dimensional space.  It is, clearly, a case of one individual imposing their will and action against an unwilling or incapacitated individual, but these individuals are, for all legal definitions, the time-travelling self-rapist.

If you blugeon yourself with a tack hammer, it is self mutilation.  If you were to be struck with a tack hammer by a time travelling future self, who walks into the room, strikes you with the tack hammer, despite your present self's objection, and walks away, returning to his own time, and leaving the tack hammer where it can be easily examined and clearly determined that it was, indeed, your hand holding and swinging the hammer, but the injuries indicate a third party executing the action, is it assault, and who can be arrested for it?

[Novice]

If Hannibal Smith of the A-team walked into the room with his former self armed with a tack hammer, he would know he was about to cause damage. Who knows what repercussions would take place after forcibly inserting the tack hammer into young Hannibal. He could cause serious physical or psychological damage to himself. As soon as he goes through with the act, he would remember and possibly even still be affected by the changes. This, IMO, is the same as self-mutilation and he would not be arrested for it.

Edited to be more relevant.

[pbsaurus]

Bravo.  B. A. Baracus would be proud to read that.