Topic: Another reason not to use XP (Read 6867 times)

Demosthenes · « **on:** May 11, 2004, 10:15:15 AM »

Clickage

You know, I legitimately own licenses for Windows 98SE, Windows 2000 Professional, and Windows XP Home.

I paid for them.

Windows 98SE came pre-installed on my desktop machine at home when I ordered it as such, back in 1999. I have the full Win98SE install CD and a legit license, bought and paid for. Not used anymore, but I did use it for a year and a half or so.

Windows XP Home came pre-installed -- in spite of my most aggressive arguments -- on my Toshiba laptop I bought at Best Buy in January of 2003. I'm not using it (since I wiped it out and reformatted as soon as I got it home), and no media (even though I was charged a ridiculous amount for the license that I will never use), but I do have a single user license.

Windows 2000 Professional I purchased off the shelf (to install on that same laptop so that I didn't have to use XP).

I paid for all three of those things. I don't pirate operating systems.

But I determined that Windows 2000 was the last MS operating system that I would ever use.

XP didn't offer me anything that Windows 2000 doesn't already do... and it offered a whole lot of stuff I didn't want.

Bloat, bloat, bloat -- Most of the crap they did to the interface I turn OFF. No, I don't like menu fade effects, shadows, personalized menus, "hide icons I don't use" bullshit, "hide systray stuff" bullshit, and other crap they assume everyone wants their OS to do for them. On XP machines at work, after doing an install, I spend the next hour and a half patching major security holes, disabling unnecessary services and eye-candy so that the goddamn thing doesn't run so fucking SLOW.
Activation, smactivation -- The activation scheme in XP does nothing but inconvenience legitimate customers. Change your hardware around too much, and bam! XP no worky until you get a new activation code from Microsoft.

MS has a policy to not hand out more than three activation codes for any one XP license, so if you keep rebuilding your machine with different hard drives, video cards, network cards, and other components being swapped out on any kind of regular basis (which I have done frequently), you will eventually need to fork over money to those assholes in order to use the OS you already paid for. Sorry folks, but I don't use software or operating systems that require "activation" from the company that makes them. Period. If I paid money for something, I will use it whenever and however I like, and I don't need your fucking permission.

They claim the activation scheme for XP was to stop piracy, but did it? Not at all. There were cracks out for it before XP was even released in its final version. Pirates don't even break stride when it comes to XP activation codes.
Did I mention bloat? -- With a media player I don't use, a browser I don't use or care for, and literally hundreds of other applications inexplicably bound to the operating system (more in XP than all previous Windows versions combined) that I have no use for, one can see why the pricetag of XP is inflated as well.[/list:u]

What it boils down to is this: When I strip away everything off of XP that I don't like or need, what I'm left with is a stripped-down version of Windows 2000.

Which I already use.

And now MS is deciding to check versions of peoples' XP installations and picking and choosing who to allow service packs to work for.

You know, I personally know a number of people who are using activation cracks for XP that they legitimately own because of the stupid activation scheme. Chances are, those people will be excluded from installing the long-awaited SP2 for XP because of that.

What a crock of shit.

If there was a way for me to get refunded the money I was forced to pay for the XP license on my laptop (which I have never used), I'd do it, just out of spite.

hackess · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:30:29 AM »

I just redid my computer this past weekend, and stripped the hell out of XP after installing it. If I could figure out how to get rid of "important system files" like Outlook Express, they'd be gone, too.

But, something new popped up, and I swear this is the first time I've ever seen it. Windows File Protection all of a sudden started telling me my .dlls were being deleted or modified. I get popups galore with messages asking me for the Windows XP CD so the system can replace these files with stable builds. I'm not a happy camper.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:44:47 AM »

We ran into that on one workstation last year where I work. Another IT guy with whom I work and I screwed with that damned machine for two days before we finally gave up and reinstalled XP from scratch on it. We never did really figure out what the problem was, and none of the procedures/white papers on the subject we found on MS's site worked at all.

What a pile of crap.

What's worse is, what the fuck are users supposed to do without a full XP install CD in those kinds of cases?

Like me... if I were using XP on my laptop, I'd already have run into at least two instances where I would have needed the CD, but of course the stupid thing didn't COME with one, and apparently nothing I say or do will make a difference about that.

How can they get away with forcing people to pay for something they don't in fact receive?

I mean, it's probably not going to happen any time in the forseeable future, but what if I decided to start using XP on my laptop?

I have a license for it. I was charged something like $199 for the fricken thing.

But no way to install it. I paid for XP yet I don't have it.

hackess · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:49:34 AM »

Fuck. I really don't want to install it again. I found a guide online with instructions on how to turn WFP off; we'll see if it actually works.

Do you know how to get rid of netMeeting? Furthermore, why the fuck does Windows think it's a necessary set of files?

Demosthenes · « **Reply #4 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:51:30 AM »

Quote from: catwritr

Fuck. I really don't want to install it again. I found a guide online with instructions on how to turn WFP off; we'll see if it actually works.

It's worth a try... we worked with a procedure that walked us through that as well, but it didn't work.

Quote

Do you know how to get rid of netMeeting? Furthermore, why the fuck does Windows think it's a necessary set of files?

I'm sure there's a way, but I don't know how to do it without breaking a bunch of other things.

The easiest way is to install a different OS. Like Win2K or Linux.

hackess · « **Reply #5 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:52:43 AM »

Kry and I were just talking about that in the chat room. We both want to break our Windows CDs and never look back.

AHA! A registry setting will disable System File Checker/Windows File Protection. Excellent....

Demosthenes · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2004, 11:07:37 AM »

Quote from: catwritr

Kry and I were just talking about that in the chat room. We both want to break our Windows CDs and never look back.

There are an awful lot of people like that, cat.

The more alternatives become viable, the more people will actually walk down that path.

I mean, to me, Microsoft is dead. Windows 2000 is the last OS they produced that didn't require "activation", and from the sounds of it, Longhorn will be the worst one yet, since it will be infested with Palladium DRM bullshit that simply doesn't belong on a computer, period.

I don't want it. Most people who have any idea what it is don't want it either.

The way I see it, with Linux, nor do we need it.

With Linux, you have better browsers than IE available to you: Opera, Mozilla, Galeon, Konqueror.

With Linux, you have many, many good options available for email clients in a variety of user-friendly graphical apps, or simple text-based "old school" apps: Ximian Evolution, mutt, PINE, ELM, Kmail, Mozilla Mail, Opera Mail, and numerous others.

With Linux you have thousands and thousands (instead of MS's dozens) of top-notch developers reviewing code and patching bugs and security holes as they happen... not when it's fiscally convenient.

With Linux you have stability. I had a power outage on Sunday because of a thunderstorm that moved through our area, but at the point I lost power, my desktop machine at home (named "damnthing"

) had been up and running on Slackware for 61 continuous days without a reboot. The longest that machine had ever run on ANY operating system before that had been 3 days. And that was on Windows 2000. And at that point it started acting flaky so it had to be rebooted.

With Linux you have OPTIONS. You can run a fully-immersed, easy to use graphical environment like KDE or Gnome, rich with features, applications, and nice-looking interfaces that rival anything Microsoft has ever created. Or you can run simple, resource-friendly "minimalist" windowing environments like Blackbox, Fluxbox, Windowmaker, or IceWM, or no graphical environment AT ALL if you don't mind command line console interfaces.

With Linux you can use your choice of office productivity apps, from Sun's StarOffice and OpenOffice.org, to great applications like Abiword, Kword, Gnumeric, and more than I can even think of right now.

With Linux, if you don't mind learning this stuff yourself, you can do all of that I just listed and more for 100% free. And not break any anti-piracy laws. You can change open source applications in any way you see fit, and even make copies for your friends (as long as you distribute them with source code) and you won't have the software police knocking on your door with a court summons and a lawsuit in hand.

Fuck Microsoft. We don't need them.

</soapbox>

Anonymous · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2004, 11:15:50 AM »

That belongs on the main page!

Demosthenes · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2004, 11:53:08 AM »

You're probably right.

I'll post it.

EDIT

Uh.... hey Judge... any idea why it wouldn't show up on the main page? It created a thread like it normally does, but the main page shows up totally blank for me now.

Weird Tingly Feeling.

EDIT 2

Nice... I just noticed that it doesn't show up when I go to "modify news" either. In fact, nothing shows up when I do that.

I think something's screwed up with it.

Anonymous · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2004, 01:50:07 PM »

I'm working on that problem right now... I'm going to have to access some backup files on my backup server for once.

Should be fixed in a few minutes.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2004, 02:09:51 PM »

Any idea what the heck happened?

Anonymous · « **Reply #11 on:** May 11, 2004, 02:12:51 PM »

Yeah. You broke it!

Demosthenes · « **Reply #12 on:** May 11, 2004, 02:14:44 PM »

Demosthenes · « **Reply #13 on:** May 11, 2004, 03:55:55 PM »

Okay, I just posted THE EXACT SAME ARTICLE to the main page now that Chris has fixx0rat3d everything, and it works fine.

I didn't break it. So nyah!

Vegetarian · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2004, 05:36:47 PM »

I used to use XP, but switched back to 2000. The chunky/shiny taskbar got old after an hour. It comes with some crappy little browser that gives you 1/6 normal screen size because it has so much "organization" shit around it. I have friends who actually use it. ACK. It was hard to explain to them why I dumped XP 'cause they kept saying "but it's so much better!". Dear God. My dad's obsessed with Linux, so I have it on my computer, but barely use it. I find there's not as much you can do with it. Not much can run on it yet. In the future, I'm sure it'll have a lot more versatility. Until then, I'm on 2000 and installing updates daily. Gotta love Microsoft...

Anonymous · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2004, 07:52:12 PM »

You know, you can make Windowx XP look exaclty like Windows 2000 if you want to. It just takes a little more effort to do so, that's all. Personally, I'm running all Windows 2000 on all of my computers, and Windows 2000 Advanced Server on my servers.

Vegetarian · « **Reply #16 on:** June 26, 2004, 07:54:25 PM »

Ya I ended up going back to the old school look. There's so much extra shit they put in XP too. Stuff you don't even need. Eurgh, people buy into it every day...

Anonymous · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2004, 08:00:31 PM »

If you're looking to tweak your 2000 installation even further, you might want to have a look at this list as it tells you what you can and cannot disable in Windows 2000.

In that list, there are about 6 to 8 things that you have to have running for Windows to load properly, and the rest is other things that you probably would like, such as the print spooler. I disabled that on accident once and wondered why I couldn't print anything to a networked printer. Oops. Other than that, the list is pretty helpful.

Vegetarian · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2004, 08:22:55 PM »

Haha. Ya, that's something I'd do. Cool list, I'll check it out.

The_FOO · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2004, 09:59:04 PM »

I run XP on my primary computer simply because it's the OS that runs the games I wanna play. That's the ONLY reason I still use XP.

I have another computer that's my dedicated Linux box (Slack 9.1 probably soon to be 10) so I can do what I need on either OS.

And yeah, I bought XP too. I buy at least one copy of any OS I run. (Assuming it's not free in the first place.

Anonymous · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2004, 10:10:08 PM »

One copy of Windows 95 bought it all for me.

Vegetarian · « **Reply #21 on:** June 30, 2004, 09:41:19 AM »

Quote from: The_FOO

I run XP on my primary computer simply because it's the OS that runs the games I wanna play. That's the ONLY reason I still use XP.

I have another computer that's my dedicated Linux box (Slack 9.1 probably soon to be 10) so I can do what I need on either OS.

And yeah, I bought XP too. I buy at least one copy of any OS I run. (Assuming it's not free in the first place.

Ya, I only use Windows 'cause Linux can't run much yet. Seems you can't do too much without Microsoft. Kinda sad.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2004, 09:49:33 AM »

Quote from: Vegetarian

Ya, I only use Windows 'cause Linux can't run much yet. Seems you can't do too much without Microsoft. Kinda sad.

I manage quite well with Linux (Slackware 9.1 at the moment) at home. Email, web browsing, even MORE options for word processing and spreadsheets than Windows has (OpenOffice, AbiWord, StarOffice, KOffice, GNOME Office, just to name a few), MP3s, video...

If you think you "can't do much without Microsoft", then I suspect you have never bothered to try.

Vegetarian · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2004, 09:51:24 AM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

Quote from: Vegetarian
Ya, I only use Windows 'cause Linux can't run much yet. Seems you can't do too much without Microsoft. Kinda sad.

I manage quite well with Linux (Slackware 9.1 at the moment) at home. Email, web browsing, even MORE options for word processing and spreadsheets than Windows has (OpenOffice, AbiWord, StarOffice, KOffice, GNOME Office, just to name a few), MP3s, video...

If you think you "can't do much without Microsoft", then I suspect you have never bothered to try.

Can you run a lot of computer games on it?

Demosthenes · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2004, 09:54:17 AM »

A lot of people have had great success running Windows applications (like games) under Linux.

But even if you don't... if all you boot into Windows for are games, does that really justify saying "you can't do much without Microsoft"?

An operating system that most games are written to run on does not equal "the only OS out there".

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