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  • (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

Author Topic: Just started reading this...  (Read 3431 times)

The_FOO

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Just started reading this...
« on: August 05, 2004, 08:32:42 PM »

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000099.html

I'm not too far into it but it's quite a good read so far.

I particularly like this passage: Now, as Al Sadr’s support evaporates; as his militia thugs are being hunted and killed by shadowy Iraqi ghost armies and extremely corporeal Marines; as his fellow Mullahs condemn him; as Iraqi demonstrations against him and all that poison and ruin he represents continue to rise; as his headquarters are destroyed, his most vicious ‘soldiers’ killed in their own backyards, playing defense in an urban environment by Marines whose skill and tactics stagger credulity for their expertise and success – now, we must ask ourselves: did you want to feel good or did you want to win?
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Law

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Just started reading this...
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2004, 09:16:08 AM »

Uh, aren't rants supposed to have a point?

Anyways, Mr. Windbag needs to do some research before he posts his polemics. I can't spend too much time on his incoherentcies but, from the passage posted alone you get a glimpse of his missing the mark:

Now, as Al Sadr’s support evaporates

Yes, the fact that the Mehdi brigades are recruiting like never before, the fact that weapons caches we are supposed to raid and capture are no longer there when we arrive, the fact that the Iraqi government is dropping the murder charges against al-Sadr that the US had insisted on, the fact the al-Sadr's newspaper, shut down by the US, has been reopened by the Iraqi government and circulation has tripled in Baghdad alone, and the final fact that the Mehdi brigades have begun systematic attacks againt Iraqi and US targets again is clearly a sign that support in evaporating.

as his militia thugs are being hunted and killed by shadowy Iraqi ghost armies

I'm confused, but assume he is thinking about the militias that are hunting Zarqawwi and his forces, not al-Sadr.

as his fellow Mullahs condemn him

So far only one has. See the referenced murder charge above...

as Iraqi demonstrations against him and all that poison and ruin he represents continue to rise; as his headquarters are destroyed, his most vicious ‘soldiers’ killed in their own backyards

Again, I am going to assume he means Zarqawwi. Sadr and his Mehdi brigades have more command structures than is necessary, most of them in mosques so they can't be easy targets. One was closed by the US, but has since been reopened. Zarqawwi on the other hand is the guy whose HQs we keep claiming to blow up. Most demonstrations in Shi'a cities are in support of al-Sadr and Mehdi, not against them...

playing defense in an urban environment by Marines whose skill and tactics stagger credulity for their expertise and success

Admittedly, US forces have far more training and experience than the Mehdi brigades. However, until recently the lopsided body count and continued growth of public support for al-Sadr amongst the Shi'a is hardly what I would call true success on our part. The Iraqi airwaves are packed full of people who support Sadr and his mission, newspapers and magazines are dedicating entire issues to him and his fighters. Remember, the Mehdi only attack the US military and its support structure in Iraq. Unlike Zarqawwi and his ilk, Sadr does not target Iraqis. He long ago became a popular hero.

That said, they have an advantage over US troops, a cowardly one, but one nonetheless. They don't organize to fight. They're everywhere. They attack from cemeteries, from roof tops, from houses. Clearly they care nothing about the people they are "fighting for," they are more interested in results and possible anti-US PR booms when a house or mosque gets damaged in a US response. For weeks we surrounded their strong holds in Baghdad and its environs. We attacked, we bombed, we infiltrated. They are still there. They convinced us to sign a truce. Why? So we wouldn't kill anymore innocents. Noble, but they still win.

They have consolidated power, they continue to grow. They are, after all, the majority in Iraq and have been violently suppressed for 40 years. People familiar with the religious make-up in Iraq have seen this coming for years. The only reason Saddam and his Sunni minority held power was because they had the guns. Well, guess what? Tables are looking a little different now. They have guns, tanks, missiles. They have an army. The new Prime Minister that we hand chose to lead the country is a member of Sadr's Shi'a community. The primary moderate Shi'a cleric, al-Sistani (the likely only religious force to oppose Sadr) was rushed out of the country today to have heart surgery in the UK.

did you want to feel good or did you want to win?

Bad news. When it comes to the Shi'a in Iraq, we can't win. There is no feasible way we can suppress the majority and convince them that its proper. They have been vilified, hunted and attacked by a wicked minority for decades. There is no way we can convince them that this in not their time. One of the strongest countries in the region, Iran, is a staunch ally of Sadr and the few scattered Shi'a armies in Iraq.

We can't feel good or win until we recognize that Iraq will not be a secular country. We can try and impose a Lebanese style confessional government, but since that lead to 15 years of civil war, an uneasy truce and now rearming militias, probably not the best choice for Iraq.

</>

Sorry FOO, not to detract from your interest in this guy, he just needs to do a ton more research before he draws the perfect conclusions.
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Min

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Just started reading this...
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2004, 09:56:45 AM »

Quote from: Law
I can't spend too much time on his incoherentcies but...


 :shock:

I'd hate to see the length of the post if you did have time to burn!
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The_FOO

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Just started reading this...
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2004, 11:44:19 AM »

Quote from: Law
Sorry FOO, not to detract from your interest in this guy, he just needs to do a ton more research before he draws the perfect conclusions.


Hehe. No problem. As I said I'd just started reading it when I posted the link.

Right now, I'm not even sure if I finished reading it all to be honest. It was pretty late last night when I started in on it.
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Law

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Just started reading this...
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2004, 01:34:33 PM »

Quote from: Detta
Quote from: Law
I can't spend too much time on his incoherentcies but...


 :shock:

I'd hate to see the length of the post if you did have time to burn!

That was just off the top of my head when I got to work this morning. If I was at home and had better resources I could completely bore you!
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The_FOO

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Just started reading this...
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2004, 01:52:06 PM »

Quote from: Law
That was just off the top of my head when I got to work this morning. If I was at home and had better resources I could completely bore you!


Actually I enjoyed reading your post quite a bit. You've obviously followed the situation a lot closer than I have. I just thought it was an interesting article in praise of the actual troops on the ground.

I think I'll have to go back and read it when I'm not half asleep and distracted.
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Law

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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2004, 08:12:32 AM »

Mildly apropos of this thread, I found the attached picture on the front page of the Boston Globe this morning. I thought it was neat-o.
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The_FOO

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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2004, 08:42:36 AM »

That's pretty cool. They managed to get the round as it was leaving the tube.

You have to wonder though, if the press can find these people, why can't the military?
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phyre

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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2004, 10:20:11 AM »

Quote from: The_FOO
You have to wonder though, if the press can find these people, why can't the military?
Who says the press took that picture? Could have been Al Jazeera, or even one of their comrades. Granted, it had to get to the press somehow, but there are any number of ways that could have happened that are completely unavailable to the military.
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The_FOO

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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2004, 10:33:13 AM »

Quote from: phyre
Who says the press took that picture? Could have been Al Jazeera, or even one of their comrades. Granted, it had to get to the press somehow, but there are any number of ways that could have happened that are completely unavailable to the military.


Isn't Al Jazeera the Arab version of CNN? Or am I confused.
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Law

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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2004, 11:39:33 AM »

Quote from: The_FOO
Quote from: phyre
Who says the press took that picture? Could have been Al Jazeera, or even one of their comrades. Granted, it had to get to the press somehow, but there are any number of ways that could have happened that are completely unavailable to the military.


Isn't Al Jazeera the Arab version of CNN? Or am I confused.


No, you're right. Al-Jazeera is a satellite broadcast station out of Bahrain. But, they do have unprecendented access in Iraq. Mostly because the militants are pretty sure that they won't drop a dime on them...

Neither here nor there, though. The pic was taken by Akram Saleh of Reuters.
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The_FOO

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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2004, 05:14:59 PM »

Ah ha. I'm not confused. e09t!

I still think the press should let the military in on where to find the bad guys though. Or at least the military should follow the press around a little more closely.
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