Topic: Spiritual Journals of a Confused Child - Final Part (Read 8673 times)

Anonymous · « **on:** March 11, 2005, 09:35:20 PM »

http://www.gotthegeek.com/images/judgeavatar.jpg"> Submitted byTheJudge

If you haven't read the previous 3 parts of this article, I recommend you do. This is the final chapter in my exploration of faith. I guarantee that this final portion will lead to some interesting discussion!

Not long ago, I went to a catholic celebration at my local Church. I hadn’t gone for a while, so I figured I could use some divine cleansing! A new priest performed the ceremony that day and he had a message for the members of his parish. He told a story based on actual events, tried to make a point, and after hearing what he said, I almost got up and left right there because I was offended. Let me retell this tale of his.

He spoke of a catholic couple who had a child. They were good people who attended church every Sunday, were educated, generous, and so on. When their son was young, but old enough to understand the principle of religions, they told their son “We want to teach you about our religion. We want to tell you about what we believe in. But we want you to know that the religion you choose to practice is a personal choice, and it is a choice that we will respect once you make it. You can be Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Baptist, what ever. We’ll support you in your decision.”

So far, I really liked the story. It’s funny because that’s exactly what I needed when I was young. I wanted exposure to all the other options, but I didn't get that opportunity until later in life. In fact, I criticized my lack of exposure to religions in an earlier part of this article. Anyway, the priest goes one by telling the tale of the son who returns to his parents many years later, at the age of 16, and tells them he finally made up his mind. He tells his parents “I’ve decided to follow the cult of Satan”. His parents, of course, were in total shock. The son replied “I don’t understand. You don’t seem so thrilled. You told me I could choose my religion and you would support me!”

He finishes the story by telling us in great detail how his parents later found him dead in the bat tub. He slashed his wrists and was covered in blood. He had left a letter which revealed that Satan commanded him to end his life. The priest then concludes his story by saying that when it comes to the choice of religion, there should NOT be options. Catholics who have children should transfer the catholic beliefs without questions. Failing to do so could lead to the same result than this.

Well Christ! I took a lot of energy form me to maintain my composure. Who the fuck was this idiot? In his conclusion, he pretty much states that the reason why this event occurred is because of the parents. Hello! There are catholic people who kill themselves you dumb fuck. The reason why this kid, or any other, may not even be related to religion when it comes down to it.

It’s events like this one that really turn me away from my religion. Now, I do recognize that not all priests of my religion think like that. There are some “old school” practitioners and there are some who have modernized and adapted the delivery of their ceremonies in ways that better reflect today’s society. But they are still very confined within the organization. This rigid, out of date mentality is a serious problem for me. I want to keep an open mind and explore in great detail this religion of mine, but I don't like it when I constantly bumb into walls. It is one of the reasons why I am not comfortable as a member of a catholic cult. I use the word cult by choice. When you look at the definition of this word, the catholic organization fits quite well.

So what are my options? I can’t really cover every aspect of my personal life in these journals, but there are some which play an important role in answering the question. Before I look at solutions, I should really evaluate my needs. It’s like anything else in life right? When you buy a product or invest in a hobby, it's because it will satisfy a need. So what is it that I seek from religion?

This is where I share some of my beliefs. First, let’s establish a general definition of a God. Who/what is a God? Let’s pretend that a God is an all powerful entity with endless power, which may or may not manifest itself in physical form, and can use its powers at will to influence our existence in positive or negative ways, and it is aware of our individual existences. I can’t prove any of the things I just said but I’ve left the definition of God very broad to cover how people generally perceive it/him/her what ever.

If you look at history you’ll note that religion and deities have always been part of societies. Take a look at the Egyptians for example. They had many Gods, not just one. Each God had specific role or purpose, and varying powers. The Pharaoh’s always had high priests as advisors because it was important to act in ways that would keep these Gods happy. This belief has lead to various religious practices, including human sacrifices. Other groups also operated under similar principles. The Incas and the Mayas are some good examples. All Gods of these societies existed prior to the arrival of Jesus Christ therefore I have to wonder why Jesus is the right guy. The majority of today’s religions or based on various interpretations of the arrival of Jesus and his life on earth. I guess he just showed up randomly one day. He represented a single deity amongst many others. Why should he be the real thing? What the hell happened to Nut, Geb, Ra, Hathor, Sekhmet, Isis, Osiris, Seth, Horus, Thoth, Anubis, Ma'at, Amun and Bastet?

Well, I can’t answer that. In fact, I’m not sure it’s relevant. I’ll try to explain this in a way that makes sense, but I’m not always good at making sense! In my pondering about the secrets of the universe, one thing that struck me with history is that in pretty much all cases where Gods were worshiped, organized religions took form. And in all cases, organized religion had a common impact: it influenced behaviors. In some cases, but not all cases, this is achieved by fear. I spoke of human sacrifices earlier. This wasn't always viewed as something that would generate fear. In some cases, sacrificing oneself for your God was honorable and some people willing participated in the ritual. There’s also the concept of hell, as another example of fear. Another interesting practice was the burning of witches, which is essentially human sacrifice, but under different circumstances than the traditional Inca sacrifices.

The burning of witches served multiple purposes. First, it instigated fear and conformity. People sometimes practiced specific behaviors that religion did not approve of. So what better way to diminish these practices than labeling the offenders, and publicly burn them alive on a stake? Who the hell is going to repeat the offense after witnessing that?

Labeling was also a powerful political tool. In some cases, women were labeled witches, not because of their behaviors, but purely for political reasons. For example, people who associated with groups rival to the religious powers could end up being labeled witches. Because the labeling of witches targeted females, innocent women were sometimes burned because of the actions or affiliations of male counterparts. This would serve as a way to discourage some behaviors exhibited by the men. It’s a good way to remove opposition while strengthening your grasp on people at the same time.

When you look at how witchcraft became into existence, and how witches were treated in different time periods, regions and countries, you can see that the initial labeling happened for many different reasons. But the one thing that remains constant is how organized religions took advantage of it. If you are interested in witchcraft by the way, there is an organization called WICCA which was officially recognized as a religion in 1985. You can find out more about it http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm" target ="_blank">here.

Back on topic, it seems that when I look at history, religions seem to have behavior control motives in all cases. The goals can range from either preventing or encouraging some practices but it can aalso lead to questional ethics like when they profit financially from people. The motives are diverse, but they are all achieved via behavior modification practices. Fear is a common tool, but there’s also the promise of some benefit, like the eternal afterlife in heaven for example. It seems to me like someone at some point in time fabricated all sorts of stories about mighty powerful beings to take advantage of people. When you look at it from that sense, believing in a God isn’t really an attractive option.

Before you make up your mind about the existence of a God as defined earlier, you must look beyond history. Faith is personal and it is something you, and only you, have complete control over. You either choose to believe in something or you don’t. Before making that choice, you need to figure out why you exist. Why am I here? That is the most difficult question you can ask yourself.

I’ve tried to answer this question and I concluded that there are strong ties between this question and the question of faith. You see, it is important for me to have a purpose. Like faith, I can speculate about my reason for being here, but I cannot prove it. For those of you who are purely scientific and do not believe in a God, for those who believe there is nothing after death, then logically, you must also believe that you have no purpose. There isn’t a reason for you to be here. I say that with confidence because the very arguments that you’ve used to dismiss the existence of a God can be used in the exact same manner and dismiss any reason for you to be here. If we have no purpose, then the situation is pretty darn depressing don’t you think? That is why I say that faith ties in with defining our purpose. Both require that we adopt a position that we cannot prove. It is a choice. I for one, choose that I want a purpose. I choose to believe I have one. So why am I here? It’s a darn good question.

I don’t necessarily want to explore in detail how I drew my conclusions because I could write a book about that and I’m sure you’re finding this long enough as it is! So instead, I’ll just skim the topic quickly. To put it simply, I refuse to believe that there is absolutely no reason for my existence. There has to be a reason. This position I took kind of answers the “Why am I here” question. I am here to do something (because I have a purpose). What is it that I need to do? That’s a different question. Comprende?

When I asked myself these questions, I also realized that others must have been asking themselves the very same question. I think it’s possible that when you look at history, people needed a sense of purpose. Religion provided it to them. Remember earlier when I spoke of filling a need? This was it! It doesn’t matter if the God was fabricated or real, the concept of a God and the expectaions from this God satisfied our need of purpose.

Religions are based on beliefs which manifest themselves into behaviors. Believing in a religion meant getting direction on how one should live their lives. It was a relief. Pondering these questions all the time can be quite a torment. When can determine our purposes differently from one another, but we all have one thing in common when we do: we fabricate the solution. It doesn’t matter if this comes from the belief of a God or some other belief, it comes from something we cannot prove is true. Just like we cannot prove that our purpose is true. In fact, when it comes down to it, they are both the same. In my case, God is my purpose. Or at least, what he/she/it represents.

You may not believe in a God and still have a purpose. But that can only be true if you believe in something else, which you cannot prove exists or is real, just like a God. “Why am I here?” is a question that defines us as human beings. When Maslow defined the hierarchy of needs, he forgot the most important one of all. The need to have a purpose goes beyond the need for food and shelter. What good is it to live an entire life with food in your belly if that live served no purpose? It may be presumptuous of me, but frankly I think Maslow failed to see the bigger picture.

Other than Gods, were else can we derive a purpose from? For some people, the need to procreate is tied with the need of having a purpose. Some people, who do not believe in God or in life after death, find a purpose from procreation. In this case, the children themselves satisfy the need of purpose because they provide a goal, a meaning to a person’s existence. Some even believe that there is certain continuity to their lives that will be manifested in the lives of their children, and their children’s child’s. Some even justify immortality by this belief. As a side note, have you noticed how imortality and life after death is often an intricate part of religions and beleifs? Our need to have a purpose is generated by death. I beleive this to be true in all cases. Death, the end of our existence, is the direct cause for all our fabrications, what ever they may be, that relate to our purpose.

For myself, I’m still torn between believing in a God or not. At one point in time, not long ago even, I believed in a God and I believed he had the power to grant me eternal life. But before he did, I had to prove to him that I was worthy of an eternal existence. This would be achieved by how I lived my life on earth. That’s how I defined my purposed. I viewed my current existence as a test of character.

I want to conclude by stating my current dilemma. It relates to this afterlife I was just referring to. Suppose the paragraph above was true. Let’s agree that I am here on earth to pass a test of character. If I succeed, I will be granted eternal life in some kind of paradise. Does a question come into mind then? It does for me. In this new life, what will my purpose be? Ouch… I’m back to square one aren’t I? Maybe I don't want an eternal life after all. In the end, that promise doesn't satisfy my need. it still doesn't give me a purpose to exist. It does in the short term, during my stay on earth, but then what?

Perhaps our only purpose is to die. Perhaps death itself provides that purpose we seek all our lives. Maybe we just don't want to face the truth and admit the purpose of our lives is to die. That's depressing too! What this really means is that we don't in fact have a purpose. Our existence is insignificant, inconsequencial and irrelevent. Wheter God is my purpose, or death is my purpose, I'm going full circle in both cases. Waitminute... Full circle! When I think about it, maybe I'm not so off after all. I don't beleive infinity can exist in a linear fashion, it must be circular. My existence must therefore also be circular to be permanent. If I'm going full circle in both cases, then perhaps this need for a purpose is the only thing that keeps us alive. It's the need to have a purpose, not the purpose itself. There is more than one way to provide purpose, but there is still just one need.

Well there you go. I've just uncovered the secrets of the universe! Or maybe I'm just really confused. But isn't that the title of this article?

Anonymous · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:31:44 PM »

I've been re-reading this whole thing and I drew new conclusions so I amended this last article.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:41:13 PM »

Judge I think that's a pretty healthy viewpoint to have about your own beliefs, and those of others. It took a circuitous route, but often one's search for "truth" does... that's the way of things.

The important part is, you took that journey yourself, did your own footwork, came to your own conclusions (or at least learned to accept the questions), and are comfortable with what you now feel about it.

That, in my opinion, is really all anyone can do... it's a mature, conscious choice, made with reason and what you feel works best and feels right for you, and there is never anything wrong with that.

As for your concluding questions, there's also nothing wrong with that, either... keep asking them. Most of us don't have any concrete answers, but that's never stopped us from asking anyway.

Heck, even atheists wonder about stuff like that. My own interest in religion has always been more of an academic one than a philosophical or spiritual one... but atheism is really more of a lack of belief in deities, not a lack of curiosity.

Anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:45:24 PM »

Why thank you! Would you be interested in joining Judgisim where the only beleif we have is that you should beleive what the hell you want to beleive?

Demosthenes · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:46:14 PM »

I already gave at the office.

Anonymous · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:48:12 PM »

OK. Besides, we don't offer tax deductions (which I strongly beleive in!).

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:55:43 PM »

I'd like to write a small disclaimer stating two things, 1) I am Agnostic and 2) I am only a High School Senior.

That said, I'd just like to try to address some points:

Quote from: TheJudge

It is one of the reasons why I am not comfortable as a member of a catholic cult. I use the word cult by choice. When you look at the definition of this word, the catholic organization fits quite well.

Indeed. When I actually brought this point up last year while I was in a diff school (Catholic) during religion class, the teacher basically told me that the Catholic religion is widely accepted, and it has 2000 years of tradition.

I thought it was a copout a first, but it really does make sense. The only reason we don't consider the Catholic Church a Catholic Cult really is 2000 years, and that still doesn't stop some people. (See Above Quote)

Quote from: TheJudge

You see, it is important for me to have a purpose. Like faith, I can speculate about my reason for being here, but I cannot prove it. For those of you who are purely scientific and do not believe in a God, for those who believe there is nothing after death, then logically, you must also believe that you have no purpose. There isn’t a reason for you to be here. I say that with confidence because the very arguments that you’ve used to dismiss the existence of a God can be used in the exact same manner and dismiss any reason for you to be here. If we have no purpose, then the situation is pretty darn depressing don’t you think? That is why I say that faith ties in with defining our purpose. Both require that we adopt a position that we cannot prove. It is a choice. I for one, choose that I want a purpose. I choose to believe I have one. So why am I here? It’s a darn good question.

I try to set my own purpose, whether it be to just live out my life or to work towards a specific goal (Better Humanity, Become a Philosopher, make money, whatever...) because it really becomes important to have something to live for, otherwise you find there is no reason to suffer hardships with no net gain.

Religion is one way people fill that void of purpose, just like they use it to justify following a certain moral code. (Do this or go to hell)

"Almost all religious sects have begun among the common people, from whom they generally have drawn their earliest, as well as most numerous proselytes. The austere system of morality has, accordingly, been adopted by those sects almost constantly, or with very few exceptions; for there have been some...Many of them, perhaps the greater part of them, have even endeavoured to gain credit by refining upon this austere system, and by carrying it to some degree of folly and extravagance; and this excessive rigour has frequently recommended them, more than anything else, to the respect and veneration of the common people." (Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations)

Another purpose of faith is, as Judge mentions, regarding death. Do we end up in a black void of do we enjoy eternal joy? Are the wicked punished or end up the same as the nice?

I find my own reasons to be good, one of them Karma and just the fact that I like being "nice", but I won't deny religion also tries to fill this hole.

Along these lines then, is something I thought about a lot recently, and this was actually brought up while I was thinking of while playing D&D. When you say this :

Quote from: TheJudge

Maybe I don't want an eternal life after all. In the end, that promise doesn't satisfy my need. it still doesn't give me a purpose to exist. It does in the short term, during my stay on earth, but then what?

I thought about something similar to this: If I could become immortal, or to have the powers of a God, would that really lead me to happiness?

Think about this. You are playing D&D. You now have the best armor you can ever hope to get, and nothing can beat you. If you like, you could go smack a god upside the head, and he would just pout. How long can that go on before you start to get bored and decide to do something else? Maybe create a level 1 char again, and work your way up, or even play something else.

The same situation would arrise if you were a God. You can do whatever you want, would you eventually get bored of it and start to think of it as a curse and not a gift? At first you would love it, but would time change that? Keep in mind, you have an eternity to decide.

Just some of my thoughts, I send them to you in the hopes of a response.

xolik · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2005, 04:16:36 PM »

I would be terribly bored as a god. Even with eternal life, I think I'd get bored eventually. Unless there is an eternal amount of worlds\universes\planes to explore. That would keep me busy, I suppose. From what I've read and from my own limited understanding of the teachings of my particular faith, apparently I'll be in a really friggen big city after I'm dead and will be too busy worshiping to notice anything else.

The idea of Heaven has always intrigued me. I wonder, if I get in, what will happen? Will God take it upon himself to completely reprogram me, erase all former memories, and then stick me in the city with the rest of the faithful? If so, what will we do all the time? I'm assuming that free will is now out of the question, because with free will sin is an option and I'm sure heaven wouldn't be heaven if sin were running rampant. (Hence the memory being erased. If I remember how to sin, chances are I'll do it again.)

I could go on, because I've got tons of questions like this, but I think I'll save them for another thread.

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2005, 04:32:20 PM »

You know Xol, that is a really interesting question actually. I don't think too many people actually consider that, interesting.

dcrog · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2005, 05:51:27 PM »

Interesting thought Xol. But if free will wouldn't be present then how did Lucifer go from being an arch angel to where he is today?

Just food for thought.

Anonymous · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2005, 05:57:21 PM »

Good point!

Now about this whole being a God business, I certainly wouldn't want that role. I mean what's the motivation? You're perfect already so obviously you can't develop your character. No one's above you so you've got no reason to keep fighting to make your way up the ladder. Everyone wants something from you. They call you 24/7 requesting something and when you don't deliver, they turn away from you. I mean, when does the guy get to take a vacation?

I think God got feed up with work and decided to take a break.

xolik · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2005, 10:28:53 PM »

Two additional thoughts:

1. Perhaps God put the lock down on free will BECUASE of the whole 'Lucifer' thing after it happened. I can't imaging God, to quote Calvin and Hobbes, punting angels left and right out of Heaven.

2. Sometimes I wonder if God did indeed 'take a vacation' because He got fed up of humans constantly demanding He proove His existance over and over again. You can only do cheap parlor tricks long enough before you get fed up with it. Perhaps when He returns he'll see who bothered to keep the faith or not and take that into consideration during final judgement.*

*I seriously am NOT trying to troll Athiests with this statement. This is just something I pulled out the air as a possible theory. No offense is intended as I am certianly the LAST person on Earth who is fit to say who and who isn't getting into Heaven.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:24:37 AM »

Well while we're trolling (

), my own view is that if the "God" of the Bible actually exists in the way He is portrayed in the Bible, there's no WAY I'd ever worship such a terrifying, ambiguous, obviously insane creature.

The Bible from beginning to end is filled with bizarre demands of this being, weird, random retribution for perceived "wrongs", inconsistent, some might say even schizophrenic points of view, and violent, sadistic attitudes towards life in general.

If that's what God is like, I want nothing to do with Him.

xolik · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2005, 12:41:58 PM »

I have a hard time understanding half the stuff written down in The Bible. There are many times in which, from the written accounts, I see Him breaking his own rules multiple times. "Hey, guys, don't kill each other, ok? I mean it. Here's I'll write it down for you so you don't forget. Now go and raise the army to take out the following people whom I don't like (starts naming names)"

And of course there is the infamous "Divine Flatten and Reinstall" of Earth via massive flooding.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2005, 01:06:42 PM »

Yeah. And what was up with that tiny little backup method he used?

He could have at least moved what he wanted to keep to a few redundant islands or mountain tops or something. Or perhaps something off-site.

Vespertine · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2005, 05:03:34 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

Well while we're trolling ( ), my own view is that if the "God" of the Bible actually exists in the way He is portrayed in the Bible, there's no WAY I'd ever worship such a terrifying, ambiguous, obviously insane creature.

The Bible from beginning to end is filled with bizarre demands of this being, weird, random retribution for perceived "wrongs", inconsistent, some might say even schizophrenic points of view, and violent, sadistic attitudes towards life in general.

If that's what God is like, I want nothing to do with Him.

I'm with you 100% on this one Demo. I've said on many occassions that if, when I die, I find out there really is a "god", I'm giving him the finger. I could never follow a "leader" who condones the types of behavior that this one (if he exists) does. If he is, as the bible says, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, then he's got a responsbility (and the ability) to protect those who have absolutely no way of protecting themselves. Upon finding out that there really is a god, I can only imagine myself reading him the riot act, giving him the finger, and telling him to do what he will with me.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2005, 05:51:11 PM »

I'm pretty sure you and I wouldn't fit in very well in "Heaven" anyway, Vespertine.

Besides, look at it this way... all the beer is probably further south.

Anonymous · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2005, 11:22:56 PM »

Quote from: Vespertine

Upon finding out that there really is a god, I can only imagine myself reading him the riot act, giving him the finger, and telling him to do what he will with me.

I'm sure he'll start with a soaped up boob inspection.

Graham_UK · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:59:10 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

Yeah. And what was up with that tiny little backup method he used?

He could have at least moved what he wanted to keep to a few redundant islands or mountain tops or something. Or perhaps something off-site.

Yeah but this backup was mobile, sort of Centrino stylee. What good are your backups if there is an ocean between you and them.

Island 1 : Predators
Ocean :
Island 2 : The prey

Its gonna get messy.....

reimero · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2005, 03:13:04 PM »

Quote from: Vespertine

Quote from: Demosthenes
Well while we're trolling ( ), my own view is that if the "God" of the Bible actually exists in the way He is portrayed in the Bible, there's no WAY I'd ever worship such a terrifying, ambiguous, obviously insane creature.

The Bible from beginning to end is filled with bizarre demands of this being, weird, random retribution for perceived "wrongs", inconsistent, some might say even schizophrenic points of view, and violent, sadistic attitudes towards life in general.

If that's what God is like, I want nothing to do with Him.

I'm with you 100% on this one Demo. I've said on many occassions that if, when I die, I find out there really is a "god", I'm giving him the finger. I could never follow a "leader" who condones the types of behavior that this one (if he exists) does. If he is, as the bible says, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, then he's got a responsbility (and the ability) to protect those who have absolutely no way of protecting themselves. Upon finding out that there really is a god, I can only imagine myself reading him the riot act, giving him the finger, and telling him to do what he will with me.

I have one big problem with that, namely, that just because an omnipotent deity CAN do something doesn't mean he's morally OBLIGATED to do it. In fact, in a very real sense, divine intervention is the antithesis of free will, and I believe very strongly in free will: my actions are my own, and they may or may not affect others, but regardless, all must live with the results of my actions, including me. And if harm should come to others from my actions, then I must accept any and all resulting culpability.

I think the argument that an omnipotent deity has the responsibility to intervene in this way or that is flawed in that it essentially allows us to turn a blind eye to wrongs against others. Let me put it this way: if there is no god and we allow atrocities against humanity to go unabated, we are culpable. If there is a god, does that then absolve us of that responsibility?

reimero · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2005, 03:15:42 PM »

As an aside, I find that most practicioners of the Bible are guilty of "selective Biblical interpretation" and choose only to abide by those passages that fuel their self-righteous superiority. Passages like "love your neighbor as yourself," "let him without sin cast the first stone" and "remove the plank from your own eye before you remove the splinter from your brother's" are all too conveniently forgotten.

When it boils down to it, the REAL message of the New Testament is simple: be excellent to each other. Party on.

xolik · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2005, 12:58:07 AM »

Quote from: reimero

As an aside, I find that most practicioners of the Bible are guilty of "selective Biblical interpretation" and choose only to abide by those passages that fuel their self-righteous superiority. Passages like "love your neighbor as yourself," "let him without sin cast the first stone" and "remove the plank from your own eye before you remove the splinter from your brother's" are all too conveniently forgotten.

When it boils down to it, the REAL message of the New Testament is simple: be excellent to each other. Party on.

Guilty as charged. I tend to ingore the really idiotic stuff and stick with what you listed above.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2005, 10:07:43 AM »

At least you admit it.

There's nothing quite like the juicy rationalizations you get from some people that insist the Bible is the LITERAL TRUTH FROM GOD and insist that EVERYONE ELSE needs to follow it too, yet they themselves don't even follow half of its precepts.

reimero · « **Reply #23 on:** March 16, 2005, 11:50:48 AM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

At least you admit it.

There's nothing quite like the juicy rationalizations you get from some people that insist the Bible is the LITERAL TRUTH FROM GOD and insist that EVERYONE ELSE needs to follow it too, yet they themselves don't even follow half of its precepts.

OMG YOU HEATHEN! How can you even SAY it's not the literal truth from God (never mind that it doesn't hold up to the scientific method)!?!?!?!?

Seriously, though, it's really sad how much people miss the forest for all the trees. Most "religious law" is based on building a wall around the law. For instance, Jewish dietary law (excerpt), as laid down by God in the Torah: a calf shall not be cooked in its mother's milk.

How it's generally interpreted: meat and milk should never be combined, in fact, they should be kept seperate to the point of distinct sets of dishes and cooking utensils so as to avoid cross-contamination. Dairy derivatives count as "milk" for this purpose, so you can't have beef and cheese on a pizza, for instance. In fact, strictly speaking, you can't even eat at a pizzaria that serves pizzas with beef and cheese toppings.

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