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Author Topic: I know we've covered this before...  (Read 13201 times)

Evonus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2006, 07:32:02 PM »

That's the problem.  The media talks about the "two" parties.  About a choice of either/or.  There are more than two parties.  Major media doesn't acknowledge anyone other than the two plutocratic parties we have.  The other parties have difficulty even getting on ballots because the demublicans and republocrats make the rules to keep them down.  The other candidates aren't invited to debates.  The other candidates don't get free press in the news.  They don't get invited on the Tonight show.  And it's only getting worse.  Anyone who qualified for the California ballot used to be able to make a statement in the voter's information guide.  Now they charge $20 a word.  So the cash strapped non-plutocratic parties without their corporate backing are even being left out of the voter publications.  What I'm doing is correcting eveyone who frames election speech with a choice of either/or or says something to the effect of "two" parties.  I hope you will all join in my reeduction plan and call bullshit when you hear such dualistic speech.

In all honesty a winning president only gets about 27% of the potential votes out of the entire country. Because only like 55% votes and they only get like 51-52% of the votes, so I mean if the people that don't normally vote came out and did so, heck even 30 out of the 45 percent they could easily shift the balance of power.

But yes the republicans and democrats seem very happy forcing their dual party system on the rest of us. I say that's a real issue that needs protesting instead of much of the other bullshit you hear about, like a school in east witchitah kansas took a bible poster down.
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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2006, 07:37:22 PM »

HA!  That's 55% of registered voters.  What percentage of eligible voters actually decide the presiden.... oh, wait.  The Supreme Court decides the presidency.  Never mind.
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Evonus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2006, 07:40:22 PM »

HA!  That's 55% of registered voters.  What percentage of eligible voters actually decide the presiden.... oh, wait.  The Supreme Court decides the presidency.  Never mind.

If people haven't taken the time to register I consider most of them hopeless. Half of them probably have more important things on their mind than politics, like rent and feeding their 28 children.
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Big Orange Cat

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2006, 08:32:38 PM »

Quote
If people haven't taken the time to register I consider most of them hopeless. Half of them probably have more important things on their mind than politics,

I described this in another forum, but recently the Supreme Court determined that the blanket primary in Washington state was unconstitutional -- because it DOESN'T ALLOW THE PARTIES TO PICK THEIR OWN CANDIDATES.

Not the voters, the political parties get to choose which candidates they want to get in office.

Thus, Washington State voters must now declare they are Dems, Reps, or Libs when they fill out the ballot. We can only vote for candidates of the party we pick.

In the first primary since that decision, 20% of the voters in my county had their votes invalidated (in the partisan categories) because they refused (or forgot) to pick a party.

I used to vote in every single election. Hell, I was a Jerry Brown delegate at the WA state Dem convention when he ran for president (yes, I was young and idealistic at one time). Now? I'm done with partisan politics. I will only vote in non-partisan elections, like my town's library bond issue coming up next month.

The parties got EXACTLY what they wanted -- fewer people making choices for the larger mass of apathetic or skeptical citizens.
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pbsaurus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2006, 08:38:08 PM »

Actually, Jerry Brown had some good ideas that year.  Don't apologize.  He was one of the first to recommend simplifying tax code and going for a flat tax.  I voted for him in that primary.  Like I said, I've almost always picked losers.

Evonus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2006, 09:04:11 PM »

I described this in another forum, but recently the Supreme Court determined that the blanket primary in Washington state was unconstitutional -- because it DOESN'T ALLOW THE PARTIES TO PICK THEIR OWN CANDIDATES.

Not the voters, the political parties get to choose which candidates they want to get in office.

Thus, Washington State voters must now declare they are Dems, Reps, or Libs when they fill out the ballot. We can only vote for candidates of the party we pick.

In the first primary since that decision, 20% of the voters in my county had their votes invalidated (in the partisan categories) because they refused (or forgot) to pick a party.

I used to vote in every single election. Hell, I was a Jerry Brown delegate at the WA state Dem convention when he ran for president (yes, I was young and idealistic at one time). Now? I'm done with partisan politics. I will only vote in non-partisan elections, like my town's library bond issue coming up next month.

The parties got EXACTLY what they wanted -- fewer people making choices for the larger mass of apathetic or skeptical citizens.

But if you give up you're letting them have their way. Declare yourself a Libertarian and vote them in in the primaries or whatever and then support them to the presidency
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Demosthenes

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2006, 09:49:35 PM »

That's the problem.  The media talks about the "two" parties.  About a choice of either/or.  There are more than two parties.  Major media doesn't acknowledge anyone other than the two plutocratic parties we have.  The other parties have difficulty even getting on ballots because the demublicans and republocrats make the rules to keep them down.  The other candidates aren't invited to debates.  The other candidates don't get free press in the news.  They don't get invited on the Tonight show.  And it's only getting worse.  Anyone who qualified for the California ballot used to be able to make a statement in the voter's information guide.  Now they charge $20 a word.  So the cash strapped non-plutocratic parties without their corporate backing are even being left out of the voter publications.  What I'm doing is correcting eveyone who frames election speech with a choice of either/or or says something to the effect of "two" parties.  I hope you will all join in my reeduction plan and call bullshit when you hear such dualistic speech.



Most definitely.

A recent local news article remarked how Minnesota has had more 3rd party governors than just about any other state, and the reporter who did the story really didn't have any idea why.

Personally, I think the main reason for that is the simple fact that Minnesota makes it a lot easier than most other states for 3rd party candidates to get on the ballot, period.

In some states it's practically impossible to get on the ballot in a major election unles one is a Demoblican or a Republicrat.  And it is that way on purpose.  The powers that be have legislation on the books that makes it essentially illegal for a 3rd party to do so.  Unfair signature requirements (that aren't required of the main two parties), unrealistic deadlines for petitions (which are disregarded if the candidate is a Democrat or a Republican), incredibly outrageous "registration fees" designed to put money-poor candidates out of the running while the two big parties get that much money in a single morning's bribes.

Minnesota has a nominal registration fee that most 3rd party candidates don't have a problem putting together, applies the rules evenly, and pretty much lets anyone who meets the fairly loose requirements have their chance.

Hell, on the last major election, not only were there candidates from the Libertarian and Green and Reform and Independence parties.... there were even candidates from the Communist, Socialist, and Constitution parties, all three of whom are so fringe and whacked out that most people don't even realize they're actual organized political entities.

If more states were a bit more fair-minded, we'd see a lot more 3rd party candidates in office, in the news, and in there making a difference. 
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pbsaurus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2006, 10:13:16 PM »

That would be a start, but I still say the vernacular of "Are you a demublican or republocrat", "either party", "the republocrat incumbant and the demublican challenger", needs to come to a halt.  It almost makes me puke everytime I hear a talking head say crap like that.  And then it trickles down to the herd and they start repeating that crap.

Let's replace that political ladder with the missing rungs and give some real public minded people the boost to get them started.

Evonus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2006, 10:21:49 PM »

That would be a start, but I still say the vernacular of "Are you a demublican or republocrat", "either party", "the republocrat incumbant and the demublican challenger", needs to come to a halt.  It almost makes me puke everytime I hear a talking head say crap like that.  And then it trickles down to the herd and they start repeating that crap.

Let's replace that political ladder with the missing rungs and give some real public minded people the boost to get them started.

How do you propose we change 100 million minds PB? If you can come up with an idea short of insighting revolt I'll probably do it. I mean I can change my vernacular but the most I'll really effect even with the trickle down is like 1000 people.
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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2006, 10:57:13 PM »

Quote
But if you give up you're letting them have their way. Declare yourself a Libertarian and vote them in in the primaries or whatever and then support them to the presidency

My problem is I've never been a joiner. I'm skeptical of people who surrender their individuality for the security of being pablum fed some ideology/theology that they never have to question.

I also don't particularly care for the whack jobs that pass themselves off as Libertarians in this state.

And as for inciting revolt, someone earlier made a comment (which may have been laden with sarcasm), about the police not beating protesters up anymore, I'm assuming post-Vietnam era.

I guess you missed the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999.

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pbsaurus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2006, 11:20:26 PM »

How do you propose we change 100 million minds PB? If you can come up with an idea short of insighting revolt I'll probably do it. I mean I can change my vernacular but the most I'll really effect even with the trickle down is like 1000 people.

Such a cynic at such a young age.  I don't expect to change all those minds, but I am principled and express my ideas freely.  Who knows, maybe one of the people I correct could become a network executive someday and actually have the power to change things.  Probably not, but don't kill this old man's dream :P

Evonus

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2006, 05:37:17 PM »

Such a cynic at such a young age.  I don't expect to change all those minds, but I am principled and express my ideas freely.  Who knows, maybe one of the people I correct could become a network executive someday and actually have the power to change things.  Probably not, but don't kill this old man's dream :P

Hey maybe I could become a CEO or something someday!

My problem is I've never been a joiner. I'm skeptical of people who surrender their individuality for the security of being pablum fed some ideology/theology that they never have to question.

I also don't particularly care for the whack jobs that pass themselves off as Libertarians in this state.

And as for inciting revolt, someone earlier made a comment (which may have been laden with sarcasm), about the police not beating protesters up anymore, I'm assuming post-Vietnam era.

I guess you missed the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999.



A riot and a protest are too very different things. Riots involve violence usually on both sides. Protests are peaceful.
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Demosthenes

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Re: I know we've covered this before...
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2006, 07:41:38 PM »

Many a peaceful protest has turned into a riot because of the exertions of authority.

That's not to say that protests go sour because of idiots among the protesters as well.  That door swings both ways.
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