The Geek Forum

  • May 15, 2024, 10:50:34 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Due to the prolific nature of these forums, poster aggression is advised.

*

Recent Forum Posts

Shout Box

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 129631
  • Total Topics: 7188
  • Online Today: 198
  • Online Ever: 1013
  • (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Author Topic: Saddam has left the building...  (Read 20046 times)

Evonus

  • Whipping Boy
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +158/-296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1066
  • ZE TROLL KING!
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2007, 04:14:06 PM »

Wouldn't the greater good "thing to do" be to isolate the sick people as a prevention to non sick people while spending efforts on finding a cure to get rid of the decease completely? In this scenario, if 200,000 person were infected per year, you would choose to kill them. This would go on indefinately, and probably lead up to an epidemic where more and more people get infected. And you would simply kill them in the name of the greater good. Under your system, let's say we kill one million individuals in a 10 year period. After then years, we still have the same problem. No progress was made, yet a million lives were lost. What if we have invested in research for the last 10 years instead and had finally found a cure. Then, we'd be at the same point in time, yet under my system, the actual problem would have been dealt with. You don't deal with the problem. You attack a symptom of the problem and it doesn't solve anything.

If you kill the first ten people that appear with the disease and dispose of their remains, you will prevent the possibility of a contamination leak from ever happening. If you kill it at its source it may never even emerge again. That's the point of a quarantine and extermination.

Not to mention, you need to realize, overpopulation is a problem. We don't need or have room for as many people as are alive. Also, there are perfectly healthy people in third world countries that are starving to death because we are wasting all of our resources on worthless lives that will never amount to anything.

Quote
Obviously, the majority doesn't want capital punishment since we're moving away from it as time progresses and as we evolve. I agree with you that closure is very important. I'm just saying closure can be reached without the destruction of another life. There are other ways.

If the majority didn't want it, it would have been outlawed already. There is no need to resort to other ways. Why take the long way, when you can keep it simple and quick. We don't need to waste massive resources on criminals. They're social garbage. I mean, if someone is in for theft or something, they can be reformed and helped and put back into society, so they're worth the resources. But giving someone life means that they can not be saved. We're just wasting time food and money taking care of them till the day their miserable lives end. It's pointless.
Logged
"Did you name your mole Avogadro?" -PBsaurus

Chris

  • Administrator
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +286/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3892
  • IT'S A TARP
    • View Profile
    • The Geekery
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2007, 06:25:04 PM »

We need to exile criminals to obscure places in the world so they can never make it back to society again. It worked well for the British when they exiled Napoleon to Saint Helena back in 1815.

Maybe even Mars.
Logged

Agent_Tachyon

  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +195/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1933
  • Beyond 1337
    • View Profile
    • Screaming Brain
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2007, 06:27:03 PM »

If you kill the first ten people that appear with the disease and dispose of their remains, you will prevent the possibility of a contamination leak from ever happening. If you kill it at its source it may never even emerge again. That's the point of a quarantine and extermination.

Not to mention, you need to realize, overpopulation is a problem. We don't need or have room for as many people as are alive. Also, there are perfectly healthy people in third world countries that are starving to death because we are wasting all of our resources on worthless lives that will never amount to anything.

If the majority didn't want it, it would have been outlawed already. There is no need to resort to other ways. Why take the long way, when you can keep it simple and quick. We don't need to waste massive resources on criminals. They're social garbage. I mean, if someone is in for theft or something, they can be reformed and helped and put back into society, so they're worth the resources. But giving someone life means that they can not be saved. We're just wasting time food and money taking care of them till the day their miserable lives end. It's pointless.

I don't believe in traditional prisons, so I'm not going to argue that the prison system IS work the resources (I don't think that it is). However I think that there are quite a few people who have killed others and still reformed, and went on to do good. Who is to say what constitutes a worthwhile existance anyway?
Logged
Singularity god is EVIL as
Creation reigns as Opposites.
Educators, and You - ought
to be killed for ignoring the
fact that "Earth is Cubed".
(ignored and suppressed by EVIL educators)

Agent_Tachyon

  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +195/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1933
  • Beyond 1337
    • View Profile
    • Screaming Brain
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2007, 06:27:46 PM »

We need to exile criminals to obscure places in the world so they can never make it back to society again. It worked well for the British when they exiled Napoleon to Saint Helena back in 1815.

Maybe even Mars.

That's actually a lot like the system I spent some time working on this weekend.
Logged
Singularity god is EVIL as
Creation reigns as Opposites.
Educators, and You - ought
to be killed for ignoring the
fact that "Earth is Cubed".
(ignored and suppressed by EVIL educators)

Crystalmonkey

  • Nazi Absinthe Drinker
  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +167/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1515
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2007, 08:20:53 PM »

As if you could somehow find the single source of the disease and destroy it before animals and such pick it up and spread it around. One of the biggest risks now adays is that people travel all over, so it can be very hard to stop an outbreak.

But beyond that, the reason the rest of the world is hungry is NOT because we are using all our food to feed people "not worth living", but because we AREN'T GIVING THEM FOOD. We waste tons and tons of food, or instead it goes to create wines and such, and it's not being eaten by ANYONE. Why do we do this? Because with the rush of this food onto the market, the value would go down, among other things. Yay for capitalism!

It would probably be better if we could get the countries to make their own food, of course, but the problem is that a lot of the land tends to be unfarmable. (Why don't they move? Perhaps for the same reason you don't have to move or farm... they assume someone else will supply the food some other way.)
Logged
"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned." - Anonymous

"Sadly, computers don't have rights, so moral arguments aside, I'm afraid it's quite legal to run Windows on them." - /. User 468275

12AX7

  • Guest
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2007, 07:00:58 AM »

You could fix all this by actually making the prisoners in "for life" support their OWN asses; in addition to performing some service required by society. Something a bit more meaningful than picking up trash or stamping out tags. How about we make the prisoners farm a boatload of food to ship out to needy people. Have Habitat for Humanity come by and pick up a few to do some digging and mixing concrete on these Houses for the Homeless project- which could also be funded in part ( in addition to other charities/projects) by the money the OTHER prisoners make when we put their asses to work actually DOING something instead of fucking and stabbing each other and lifting weights.
 Prison these days in the US is a fucking JOKE.  No- Im not saying it's a nice, easy place to be - Im saying we have a fricken TON of resources RIGHT THERE that we dont use; yet we expect the families of the victims of these same people (in addition to every other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen) to fund their currently useless existence. Hell- it oughta be the other way around; the prisoner in for life should work 7 / 12's at a real job and the money he would have made goes straight to the family. Let him support THEM for a damn change. But HELL NOES!!! That shit makes waaaay too much sense.
Reform's AZZ. They dont need to be 'reformed' (the Life sentences / death sentences)- they need to be put to work. We should squeeze every little bit of resource out of these people before they do die. THEN you can say "Life Imprisonment" makes sense and the death penalty doesn't.  Currently; neither is put to use efficiently. Actually; neither is put to "use" at all - they are "implemented", with no REAL gain for anyone.
Logged

Chris

  • Administrator
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +286/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3892
  • IT'S A TARP
    • View Profile
    • The Geekery
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2007, 07:59:42 AM »

I like your idea of making the offenders having to support the victim's family, 12. That idea makes a lot more sense than having them pick up garbage, or some other menial job that we commonly see them doing. Though, the sad part is, I don't think anyone in Congress will go for that idea.  :?
Logged

12AX7

  • Guest
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #82 on: January 08, 2007, 08:03:53 AM »

Yeh, MAKING them work under duress for the benefit of others is too close to slavery to fly here. Pity.
Logged

Evonus

  • Whipping Boy
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +158/-296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1066
  • ZE TROLL KING!
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #83 on: January 08, 2007, 09:34:15 PM »

You could fix all this by actually making the prisoners in "for life" support their OWN asses; in addition to performing some service required by society. Something a bit more meaningful than picking up trash or stamping out tags. How about we make the prisoners farm a boatload of food to ship out to needy people. Have Habitat for Humanity come by and pick up a few to do some digging and mixing concrete on these Houses for the Homeless project- which could also be funded in part ( in addition to other charities/projects) by the money the OTHER prisoners make when we put their asses to work actually DOING something instead of fucking and stabbing each other and lifting weights.
 Prison these days in the US is a fucking JOKE.  No- Im not saying it's a nice, easy place to be - Im saying we have a fricken TON of resources RIGHT THERE that we dont use; yet we expect the families of the victims of these same people (in addition to every other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen) to fund their currently useless existence. Hell- it oughta be the other way around; the prisoner in for life should work 7 / 12's at a real job and the money he would have made goes straight to the family. Let him support THEM for a damn change. But HELL NOES!!! That shit makes waaaay too much sense.
Reform's AZZ. They dont need to be 'reformed' (the Life sentences / death sentences)- they need to be put to work. We should squeeze every little bit of resource out of these people before they do die. THEN you can say "Life Imprisonment" makes sense and the death penalty doesn't.  Currently; neither is put to use efficiently. Actually; neither is put to "use" at all - they are "implemented", with no REAL gain for anyone.

If a system like this were put in place I could care less whether there was a capital punishment or not. So yes, in my opinion, this is a great idea. 12 for prez 2008!
Logged
"Did you name your mole Avogadro?" -PBsaurus

Evonus

  • Whipping Boy
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +158/-296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1066
  • ZE TROLL KING!
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2007, 09:49:18 PM »

As if you could somehow find the single source of the disease and destroy it before animals and such pick it up and spread it around. One of the biggest risks now adays is that people travel all over, so it can be very hard to stop an outbreak.

So you quarantine the area where it comes from and cleanse it. It isn't that hard with the kind of communications in this century.

Quote
But beyond that, the reason the rest of the world is hungry is NOT because we are using all our food to feed people "not worth living", but because we AREN'T GIVING THEM FOOD. We waste tons and tons of food, or instead it goes to create wines and such, and it's not being eaten by ANYONE. Why do we do this? Because with the rush of this food onto the market, the value would go down, among other things. Yay for capitalism!

Actually, the government paying farmers to not sell their crops is actually a socialist program. It was first enacted under FDR as a method to curb farmer poverty in the great depression so that they wouldn't lose their farms and the country wouldn't starve to death. If it were capitalist, they'd be still selling their crops and driving down each others prices.
Logged
"Did you name your mole Avogadro?" -PBsaurus

Agent_Tachyon

  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +195/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1933
  • Beyond 1337
    • View Profile
    • Screaming Brain
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2007, 10:04:32 PM »

So you quarantine the area where it comes from and cleanse it. It isn't that hard with the kind of communications in this century.

But somebody has to report it first. Suppose a brand new and extremely contagious disease were to break out, but starting out the symptoms aren't that different from a cold or something like that. It turns out that said disease is fatal after a few weeks or so. With modern transport technology you could certainly have a carrier of the disease pass it all across the world before you even recognized the problem. Communications are worth nothing without accurate information.
Logged
Singularity god is EVIL as
Creation reigns as Opposites.
Educators, and You - ought
to be killed for ignoring the
fact that "Earth is Cubed".
(ignored and suppressed by EVIL educators)

Evonus

  • Whipping Boy
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +158/-296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1066
  • ZE TROLL KING!
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2007, 01:46:02 AM »

But somebody has to report it first. Suppose a brand new and extremely contagious disease were to break out, but starting out the symptoms aren't that different from a cold or something like that. It turns out that said disease is fatal after a few weeks or so. With modern transport technology you could certainly have a carrier of the disease pass it all across the world before you even recognized the problem. Communications are worth nothing without accurate information.

Okay, how does this have anything to do with the analogy that was being used? This is irrelevant in relation to what was being said. 
Logged
"Did you name your mole Avogadro?" -PBsaurus

Agent_Tachyon

  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +195/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1933
  • Beyond 1337
    • View Profile
    • Screaming Brain
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2007, 02:08:57 AM »

It was in response to the statement that anybody suffering from a disease should be euthanized to prevent the transmission of said disease, and I was pointing out the logistical fallacy of such an approach nowadays.
Logged
Singularity god is EVIL as
Creation reigns as Opposites.
Educators, and You - ought
to be killed for ignoring the
fact that "Earth is Cubed".
(ignored and suppressed by EVIL educators)

12AX7

  • Guest
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #88 on: January 09, 2007, 05:40:04 AM »

12 for prez 2008!
Y'all SERIOUSLY do NOT want me as President. I'd actually fix some shit up in here; and not give a flying DAMN about "image" or re-election. Yeh; I got a few ideas.
 Here's one: Cut costs in training new recruits by shutting down all the Rifle Qualifying Ranges on all military posts. The same training can be achieved for free at the border; in addition to stemming the flow of illegals coming in. But how will our troops learn to hit a target travelling away from their firing position? you ask. That's where our trusty child-predators-who-think-they-are-being-released-to-Mexico come in. Or ..."go out"; however you wanna look at it. Those can be left lying where they fall to support wildlife as well as function as a deterrent to illegal border crossings in that area. In the meantime, training can proceed for our intelligence personnel by infiltration into the businesses hiring said illegals; our MPs can get training arresting and booking the owners of aforementioned businesses... So it's military Police instead of civillian. Wah.
  Enough of the pussy-footing around in Iraq. We took it; it's ours now. Why do we keep attempting to "install" "friendly" governments, "allies" in the war on a method. . . . Just annex the goddamn wasteland for crying out loud. Troops on foreign soil - problem solved.
 US dependance on foreign oil - problem solved.
 A stabilizing presence in the area - (and yes; it WOULD be a stabilizing presence if I did it) - problem solved.
 A .45 chunk of STFU for the bridge between Jong-Il's eyes - problem solved.
 Oh...China!!! you say. Hmm. I think that can be solved by giving them North Korea. The "Chinese Peninsula". "Here ya go, ferras; you can have it."
 
 
 
Logged

Evonus

  • Whipping Boy
  • Hacker
  • *
  • Coolio Points: +158/-296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1066
  • ZE TROLL KING!
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #89 on: January 09, 2007, 01:39:30 PM »

Y'all SERIOUSLY do NOT want me as President. I'd actually fix some shit up in here; and not give a flying DAMN about "image" or re-election. Yeh; I got a few ideas.
 Here's one: Cut costs in training new recruits by shutting down all the Rifle Qualifying Ranges on all military posts. The same training can be achieved for free at the border; in addition to stemming the flow of illegals coming in. But how will our troops learn to hit a target travelling away from their firing position? you ask. That's where our trusty child-predators-who-think-they-are-being-released-to-Mexico come in. Or ..."go out"; however you wanna look at it. Those can be left lying where they fall to support wildlife as well as function as a deterrent to illegal border crossings in that area. In the meantime, training can proceed for our intelligence personnel by infiltration into the businesses hiring said illegals; our MPs can get training arresting and booking the owners of aforementioned businesses... So it's military Police instead of civillian. Wah.
  Enough of the pussy-footing around in Iraq. We took it; it's ours now. Why do we keep attempting to "install" "friendly" governments, "allies" in the war on a method. . . . Just annex the goddamn wasteland for crying out loud. Troops on foreign soil - problem solved.
 US dependance on foreign oil - problem solved.
 A stabilizing presence in the area - (and yes; it WOULD be a stabilizing presence if I did it) - problem solved.
 A .45 chunk of STFU for the bridge between Jong-Il's eyes - problem solved.
 Oh...China!!! you say. Hmm. I think that can be solved by giving them North Korea. The "Chinese Peninsula". "Here ya go, ferras; you can have it."

You're a little to violent for my tastes on everything but the prison issue.
Logged
"Did you name your mole Avogadro?" -PBsaurus

12AX7

  • Guest
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2007, 02:04:23 PM »

Yeh, well. . . they say I tend to exagerate a bit. Occasionally.
Logged

Agent_Tachyon

  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +195/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1933
  • Beyond 1337
    • View Profile
    • Screaming Brain
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2007, 05:55:20 PM »

Yeh, well. . . they say I tend to exagerate a bit. Occasionally.

An honest politician is a national calamity.
Logged
Singularity god is EVIL as
Creation reigns as Opposites.
Educators, and You - ought
to be killed for ignoring the
fact that "Earth is Cubed".
(ignored and suppressed by EVIL educators)

Crystalmonkey

  • Nazi Absinthe Drinker
  • Hacker
  • ****
  • Coolio Points: +167/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1515
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2007, 10:46:58 PM »

Good idea on the prison thing, though.
Logged
"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned." - Anonymous

"Sadly, computers don't have rights, so moral arguments aside, I'm afraid it's quite legal to run Windows on them." - /. User 468275

12AX7

  • Guest
Re: Saddam has left the building...
« Reply #93 on: January 10, 2007, 05:59:15 AM »

Hehe.. my virulent post is, of course, a bit extreme. Obviously most of these I wouldn't even be ABLE to accomplish; even if it was tried. My point is, though, there is waaaaay too much dumbassery, incompetence, small-mindedness, partisanship, pettiness, and personal agendas - among about a book of other distasteful characteristics - that are the normal run of the day in our Capitol. I dont mean just the Executive Branch, either.
 So many things could be done ( like my prison idea ) if . . .  eh. Fuck it.  Lemme go wash this shit out of my other hand. It's full.
 I could, of course, go on and on (and on); but  .  .   . why. Just gets me all irritated and negatived out; I dont need that shit, lol. Things wont change. Not until society changes; and IF that happens, it will, of course, be over such a long time I'm sure to miss it. But I dont really have that much confidence/faith in Mankind anyway. 
 
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]