Topic: The Vatican is at it again! (Read 10779 times)

Vespertine · « **on:** December 03, 2008, 12:15:42 PM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120200817.html

Essentially, there is a U.N. resolution soon to be introduced that would seek to recommend decriminalizing homosexuality in U.N. member nations. Evidently in many places around the world, being gay is punishable by jail time and/or execution. The Vatican, in all their infinite wisdom, has come out as firmly against the resolution. They're using some sort of slippery slope argument about this leading to rampant gay marriage. You know...cuz the next step after NOT being stoned to death is a public and happy wedding where all are invited and the state/church/whatever sanctions the whole shebang.

Seriously. They're a-ok with state sanctioned murder because of a person's sexual orientation??? Weird Tingly Feeling is wrong with the Catholic church???

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2008, 12:36:17 PM »

Sperms are sacred, but once you're an actual human, you're on your own.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2008, 12:40:45 PM »

I think that's because every sperm is technically a potential Catholic. But once it has become clear that you aren't one, they couldn't give a shit about you or your happiness.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2008, 12:51:00 PM »

Quote

Franco Grillini, founder and honorary president of Arcigay, Italy's leading gay rights group, said the Vatican's reasoning smacked of "total idiocy and madness."

I agree with this guy.

If the Vatican wants to continue to distance themselves from rational thought and social progress, then good riddance.

12AX7 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:07:08 PM »

Quote from: Vespertine on December 03, 2008, 12:15:42 PM

and the Vatican
Is at it again

I am SO gonna use that in a song...

BizB · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:16:17 PM »

My thoughts.

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:18:47 PM »

Why do you hate queers?

Demosthenes · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:22:36 PM »

Quote from: Joe Sixpack on December 03, 2008, 01:18:47 PM

Why do you hate queers?

Careful. That post wasn't very respectful.

reimero · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:26:03 PM »

The Vatican will do as the Vatican will do. They play by a different set of rules than the rest of the world, but unlike normal politics, the Vatican is easily ignored by those who choose to do so. One of the major advantages of religion over nationality is that you can walk away from a religion with which you do not agree.

Look at it this way: the Vatican's biggest weakness is also its biggest strength. Everything it says and does is (ostensibly) because that's the way God wants it. They can say and do what they feel is right for what they feel are the right reasons. In a very real sense, they don't have to worry about stepping on the wrong toes because they can back things up with moral certitude. On the surface, that sounds oppressive, but it can also be liberating. The Vatican is more free than most nations to call a spade a spade and to speak out against truly oppressive regimes and activities.

I wish to point out, however, that this is not a carte blanche defense of the Vatican. I've been put off on many occasions by some of the attitudes the current Papacy has exhibited. I think some indelicate statements by Pope Benedict and his underlings have undermined a lot of the progress John Paul II made with regard to reconciliation and cooperation among major world religions, for instance. And I'm not convinced Benedict is as enlightened as his predecessor was toward the nature and role of science in our world. (Basically, John Paul II was convinced that faith and reason were meant to coexist, that reason enlightened faith, and that faith gave meaning to reason. A JPII-ish stance would have been that God did create the universe, but that the Big Bang and evolution were among the means by which God's plan was carried out.)

Anyway, the main point remains: if you're not Catholic, what the Vatican says is largely irrelevant, and is safe to ignore.

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:29:36 PM »

Not if you're gay and they're doing their best to make it sure it stays ok for you to be a 2nd class citizen, at best.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2008, 01:30:54 PM »

Quote from: reimero on December 03, 2008, 01:26:03 PM

The Vatican will do as the Vatican will do. They play by a different set of rules than the rest of the world, but unlike normal politics, the Vatican is easily ignored by those who choose to do so. One of the major advantages of religion over nationality is that you can walk away from a religion with which you do not agree.

Look at it this way: the Vatican's biggest weakness is also its biggest strength. Everything it says and does is (ostensibly) because that's the way God wants it. They can say and do what they feel is right for what they feel are the right reasons. In a very real sense, they don't have to worry about stepping on the wrong toes because they can back things up with moral certitude. On the surface, that sounds oppressive, but it can also be liberating. The Vatican is more free than most nations to call a spade a spade and to speak out against truly oppressive regimes and activities.

I wish to point out, however, that this is not a carte blanche defense of the Vatican. I've been put off on many occasions by some of the attitudes the current Papacy has exhibited. I think some indelicate statements by Pope Benedict and his underlings have undermined a lot of the progress John Paul II made with regard to reconciliation and cooperation among major world religions, for instance. And I'm not convinced Benedict is as enlightened as his predecessor was toward the nature and role of science in our world. (Basically, John Paul II was convinced that faith and reason were meant to coexist, that reason enlightened faith, and that faith gave meaning to reason. A JPII-ish stance would have been that God did create the universe, but that the Big Bang and evolution were among the means by which God's plan was carried out.)

Anyway, the main point remains: if you're not Catholic, what the Vatican says is largely irrelevant, and is safe to ignore.

Well said.

However, for the most part, the only thing I have against it is the fact that it encourages this kind of asshattery against segments of society that just want to live and let live... it encourages bigotry.

They're entitled to their opinion, and yes, they can be easily ignored by those who disagree. But that doesn't mean I have to like them.

reimero · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:22:28 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on December 03, 2008, 01:30:54 PM

Well said.

However, for the most part, the only thing I have against it is the fact that it encourages this kind of asshattery against segments of society that just want to live and let live... it encourages bigotry.

They're entitled to their opinion, and yes, they can be easily ignored by those who disagree. But that doesn't mean I have to like them.

Unfortunately, it's no crime to be an asshat or a bigot. It's also no crime to speak out against asshats and bigots or to hold them in the highest disregard.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:24:16 PM »

Oh don't get me wrong... I'm not saying it should be.

But they shouldn't be surprised when people distance themselves even more from an already unpopular list of the Vatican's stances...

xolik · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:34:58 PM »

Quote from: Joe Sixpack on December 03, 2008, 12:36:17 PM

Sperms are sacred, but once you're an actual human, you're on your own.

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate

I love that song.

Anyways, I'm a Lutheran so the Pope can suck it.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:37:28 PM »

Quote from: xolik on December 03, 2008, 02:34:58 PM

Anyways, I'm a Lutheran so the Pope can suck it.

No he can't, that's sort of the problem.

reimero · « **Reply #15 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:37:49 PM »

OMG DEMOSTEHNEZ IZ TEH DUBM

HAEV AN AD HOMINE ATTAK

xolik · « **Reply #16 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:46:41 PM »

Quote from: reimero on December 03, 2008, 02:37:49 PM

OMG DEMOSTEHNEZ IZ TEH DUBM

HAEV AN AD HOMINE ATTAK

YOUR STAWMAN MOVED MY GOALPOST WITH HIS BURDEN OF PROOF

Also, this:

reimero · « **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:52:57 PM »

But if gays marry, then they'll BE MARRIED!! ZOMGWTFBBQ!!11!1!ELEVENTY!11!!!!

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:57:03 PM »

If homosexuality is indeed genetic, then legalizing gay marriage should lead to fewer closeted homosexuals, leading to fewer of them fathering children as part of heterosexual relationships, ultimately leading to fewer homosexuals. So homophobes should actually support gay marriage.