Topic: Barbarians (Read 4625 times)

Demosthenes · « **on:** November 22, 2002, 03:57:57 PM »

A couple of quotes from this article:

Quote

Mosques and churches smoldered and charred bodies lay in the dusty streets of Kaduna [Nigeria], the northern city where the violence started Wednesday. Muslims enraged by a newspaper report questioning their complaints about the pageant set fire to the newspaper's office and began burning churches and attacking Christians.

Red Cross officials said about 100 people had been killed and 500 injured in three days of fighting.

By Friday, separate riots erupted in the capital Abuja, 225 miles to the northeast, where the beauty pageant is still planned for Dec. 7. Islamic groups for months threatened to protest the event, which they say promotes promiscuity and indecency.

...

Bands of Muslims, some armed with ceremonial daggers, stabbed and set fire to passers-by. Young men shouting "Allahu Akhbar," or "God is great," ignited makeshift barricades of tires and garbage. Christian youths smashed windows and set fire to mosques.

Plumes of smoke rose over Kaduna Friday as both sides burned and demolished homes in the segregated ethnic neighborhoods across this bustling market city.

Combine this kind of idiocy with the fact that nearly every government on the African continent is corrupt and 100% brutally self-serving, and it really makes one WONDER why the United States and other civilized nations of the world continue to waste their time pouring BILLIONS of dollars in aid -- not loans -- to these nations year after year.

Screw them. I have no sympathy for a people who will resort to this kind of savagery and middle ages mentality. Christian, Muslim alike... I couldn't care less. I say we stop spending money on these animals and let them kill themselves off. Perhaps in a few hundred generations a civilized society might emerge from the rubble, but until then, they are not deserving of any of our aid, our sympathy, our attention, or our protection or interventionism.

These are the kinds of people we find that have no qualms about blowing up a building or three for their religion.

These are the kinds of people that resent the US intervening in their local politics, yet resenting the US even more when we don't give them handouts and don't take their side in their petty conflicts.

I hate to sound isolationist, but screw them.. there are better things for the US to worry about than countries like Nigeria (and there are quite a few countries like them that we continue to hand fistfuls of money and other aid to). The more we stay involved with barbarians like this the more we will embroil ourselves in a sea of terrorism and irrational idiocy that will continue to lead to death and violence.

biggyfred · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2002, 04:55:13 PM »

That's just crazy talk.

If we give them enough money, they'll be nice.

You illustrated our rock and a hard place well. We just can't win.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2002, 05:15:49 PM »

Damn skippy, Chico. That's why I think our best course of action is to not play that game at all... as opposed to risking actually being the imperialist meddler that everyone accuses us of being. Which, in my opinion, we are.

We need to stop taking sides. Worry about our own interests. Protect our citizens, their rights, their lives, their freedoms. Stop creating enemies who want to "kill all americans, men, women, children, doesn't matter".

The best way to do that is to stop getting involved. Period. We do business with whomever we wish, trade with whomever wants to trade with us, make friends with whomever we wish to make friends with, but draw the line there. You want military aid to stop a potential coup? Sorry... deal with it yourself. You want a $500,000,000 loan to build some infrastructure? And you're a 3rd world country with no industry and no perceivable way of paying it back? Not bloody likely! You want to buy a bunch of fighter planes from us? Sure, as long as you have the cash, and don't mind us selling the same planes to your enemies if they have the cash too. You want us to step in and mediate a dispute? Find someone else. We're not the world's playground monitor. We are not the world's police force. We are not the world's endless supply of charity. We are not the world's psychotherapist.

Well, at least we shouldn't be. As it stands now, we're all those things and more. And it doesn't help anything, not for anyone else, and certainly not for us.

Countries we give aid to squander it and continue to resist pulling out of the third world, by a combination of pissing it away on temporary solutions, lining the coffers of corrupt regimes, financing rebellions against other corrupt regimes, or financing the suppression of rebellions against their OWN corrupt regimes. Add to that the insane idea of expecting a populace as backward as that to suddenly do a 180 and become intelligent, educated, and grateful simply because we handed their government some money, and you have a recipe for disappointment.

As the old saying goes, "build a man a fire, and keep him warm for a night. SET a man on fire, and you'll keep him warm the rest of his life".

pbsaurus · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2002, 05:37:46 PM »

Nigeria has oil though, so they're probably next on the list after Iraq.

DogStarMan · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2002, 08:49:11 AM »

Every time I hear this story on the news I kinda' grit my teeth and cringe inwardly. A newspaper story on a beauty pagent can cause this kind of wide spread hell on earth? There was definitely a deeper conflict going on (religion) that this just became the catalyst for. Sure, the riots were barbaric as all riots are (i.e. the Ohio State aftermath last weekend....idiots

) The ironic thing I see here is that a beauty pagent is barely one step above barbarism.

On the topic of isolationism, don't you think that if we and other countries pull our interests out of Africa, the country will become so completely corrupt that it will be a fertile ground for terroist groups to take shelter in? I'd like to say Fuck 'Em too, but I think it's too important right now to keep plugged into as many parts of the world as possible so we can monitor terrorist activities and coordinate with local governments and militaries to eliminate them.

Anonymous · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2002, 08:50:06 AM »

I may be missinformed, but I was under the impression that the aid we provide to those people are generally delivered through non-profit organisations like red cross. They deliver goods directly to the people. We don't actually give a big check to the governments... do we?

Banshee · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2002, 09:31:05 AM »

The Red Cross is a good organization, for the most part. They deliver stuff where it's needed, and don't waste too much money. Much more efficient than writing a check to the local protection racket that runs the government, like our "foreign aid" programs work.

Demo pretty much summed everything up here.

Binoboy · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2002, 11:50:42 AM »

If I may make an off-color comment, Mohammed said that when you get to heaven, you have 5000 beautiful Houris (angels) waiting for you to grant every carnal whim you could wish for.... and Muslim extremists got enraged over a newspaper article saying Mohammed wouldn't mind a beauty pageant? I'm confused; sounds like a contradiction. Nice to see contradictions aren't unique to Christian lore....

Buncha savages...

Demosthenes · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:15:19 PM »

Quote from: DogStarMan

On the topic of isolationism, don't you think that if we and other countries pull our interests out of Africa, the country will become so completely corrupt that it will be a fertile ground for terroist groups to take shelter in?

It already is, and to a point, I agree with you.

However...

Keeping "plugged in" and gathering intelligence is one thing; meddling directly in their affairs and handing them billions of dollars in aid is another entirely. We don't need to do the latter to accomplish the former. And we can gather intelligence while keeping them (diplomatically) at arm's length.

And, arguably, my isolationist bent here is really almost moot at this point; the damage has already been done, so now we are FORCED into dealing with it with more-or-less direct involvement.

DogStarMan · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2002, 01:17:00 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

And we can gather intelligence while keeping them (diplomatically) at arm's length.

I don't think that's possible. We thought we could get away with that type of reasoning when it came to Middle Eastern affairs and it's biting us on the ass. Satellite pictures and informants can only help so much. I think this is why the money keeps-a-flowin'. That whole continent is so fucked up, the money we put into it isn't even gonna' make a dent, so you know that it's not in the hopes of changing anything there. It's just our government's way of keepin' on top of the situation.

Anonymous · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2002, 02:47:32 PM »

Bush should send a nuclear missle over there, just to give the message that he knows where Africa is...

Banshee · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2002, 10:33:58 PM »

If you can't say something nice...

Say something nuclear.

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Author Topic: Barbarians (Read 4625 times)

Demosthenes

Barbarians

biggyfred

Barbarians

Demosthenes

Barbarians

pbsaurus

Barbarians

DogStarMan

Barbarians

Anonymous

Barbarians

Banshee

Barbarians

Binoboy

Barbarians

Demosthenes

Barbarians

DogStarMan

Barbarians

Anonymous

Barbarians

Banshee

Barbarians