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[Davidfak]

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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[avalanche]

Where is it?

I'm not familiar with the structure of this particular religious organization, so forgive me if I'm way out of line here.  I assume that it isn't one of hierarchal design like the Catholic church.  But, at the same time, I believe that it would be easy for the Catholics or the Baptists or even the JWs to organize a march or, somehow, make it clear that they wish to denounce a group that is giving their religion a bad name.  The message that America is getting trough the silence of the Islamic community is one of acceptance.  To wit, everything that these Islamic fundamentalists are doing in an effort to advance their cause is okay.  

Are Middle-East-Muslims still (justifiably) upset about the way they were treated after 9/11?
Is making a statement on behalf of the religion frowned upon?
Are the specific branches of Islam that are causing the problems so fringe that they're not even really recoginzed by the centrists of the religion?
Have the leadership made what they feel are sufficient statements denouncing the acts that were just never properly covered by the media?

[Law]

Oy.

The message that America is getting trough the silence of the Islamic community is one of acceptance.  To wit, everything that these Islamic fundamentalists are doing in an effort to advance their cause is okay.

The first problem being that no one is listening to the message. the American-Arab Anti-Discrimitation Committe and the Council on American-Islamic Relations daily run programs denouncing what Americans see as "mainstream Islam." The problem being, no one cares. Newspapers and television stations refuse to run the ads and the organizations themselves are too small to fund bigger campaigns.

Are Middle-East-Muslims still (justifiably) upset about the way they were treated after 9/11?

Hell yes. There  are still weekly reminders.

Is making a statement on behalf of the religion frowned upon?

Who can make the statement? Islam has no central religious structure. In the US alone you have the ill-named Nation of Islam, you have Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. Inside those divisions you have Hanafi Sunni and Zaidi Sunni, you have Ashuri Shi'a and Seveners. There are the Druze, there ar Sufi Muslims, etc. Who speaks for who? There are Arab speaking Muslims and Philipinos, Kurds, Turks, Albanians, African and Asian branches, each with a subtly different belief structure. We can all speak out, but who do we speak for?

Are the specific branches of Islam that are causing the problems so fringe that they're not even really recoginzed by the centrists of the religion?

Ha. Gods yes. the most well-known is no doubt the Wahhabi sect of Saudi Arabia who are so Muslim they're ultra-Muslim. Their interpretation and rules are so strict that they often violate Islamic law and practice. But, they are the wealthiest Muslims on earth and the have the Saudi royal family in their pockets, so they get to run amuck unchecked. Wahhabism is unquestionably the root of almost all "fundmentalist" Islamic movements. Their are various ultra-orthodox movements in every community though and they are usually the source of most anti-Western animosity. You can find the usual suspects in the usual places. Corrupt preachers and politicians in low-income, poverty stricken communities around the world who can quickly re-interpret the fraction of a saying from the Qur'an and twist it around to show why the [insert target here] is responsible for the terrible conditions you live under. As opposed to addressing anything real, they are matchstick men who specialize in illusory promises and quick and violent fixes. The sources are to find. Gaza, Sudan, Yemen, Algeria, Syria, Malaysia. Places ruled over by corrupt power structures that lend easy support to corrupt community structures that deflect blame internationally.

Have the leadership made what they feel are sufficient statements denouncing the acts that were just never properly covered by the media?

I gave you two sources above, read their releases and try and find them again in the main stream media. Chances are you won't. They put them out there, they just never get run. Who wants to read about pacifist Muslims, or Muslims doing community services or organizing voter registration drives, or educational programs on bridging the differences between Islam and its detractors. The media will instantly go for the fast and easy "another Muslim did this terrible thing today" story over anything the community puts out.

The base problem is this. Power. You know the saying. there are religious leaders out there that denounce everything done in the supposed name of Islam. You never hear it though, they don't have the power to get their message out. Or, they preside over a small community and no one listens to them or pays them any heed. Why listen to the American Iman and his 1000 followers when you can flash Zawahiri and his ilk on the news as they whip up frenzied crowds over false accusations and even falser promises?

There are a billion Muslims in the world. If they all thought that "death to America" was the key to a better life, don't you think we'd be having some serious issues right now? The fact is, most of them live in their own worlds and could care less about global strife as long as they can feed their families tomorrow. The problem is not Muslims, its "Muslims." The difference is between people who live their religion and people who use their religion. People like Bin Laden, Zawahiri, and their ilk. The figure heads who spit fire and strict Islamic discipline on TV and then go home have a glass of scotch and watch American movies on their Japanese TVs wondering what tomorrow's speech will be and should the have beef or pork for dinner.

[avalanche]

Thank you.  

I knew I could count on a rational response from you.  

I tried, though it would appear unsucessfully, to illustrate that I believe that most people of Muslim faith are quite upset by the things being done in the name of the religion they hold dear to their hearts.  Don't get frustrated with me, please.  I was simply on a quest for knowledge and you provided me with exactly what I was looking for.  

I had, several times in the past, done searches for "Muslims denounce" etc on google and news.google, but most times I would come up with a site much like the ones you linked rather than a mainstream news agency.  It saddens me that so many good people are being hurt because of the name of their religion, not their belief system.  Most of what I know of Islam is what I read at religioustolerance.org.  It served as a good overview... I guess.

It would be much easier if there was a figure/position/person to bring the good people of Islam under one unifying voice.  I suspected, as I stated above, that is was much differently organized than Catholicism.  It would appear that I was right on that note.

I suspect that even if TWO million Muslims marched on The Mall, the story would be more about the redneck assholes that protested on the side streets than it would be about the peace-loving people of one faith coming together to deliver a message.  The focus would be "How the few can spoil it for the many."  And, it would afford the media yet another opportunity to show the Berg beheading snippet.

[Crystalmonkey]

What I think many people forget is that while the media is MEANT to be a news source, it is just another buisiness. Everything has a spin, one way or the other. Not to say that everything they say is FALSE, just that they interpret it to mean one thing, when some would say another.

[Law]

Thank you.

You're quite welcome.

It would be much easier if there was a figure/position/person to bring the good people of Islam under one unifying voice.  I suspected, as I stated above, that is was much differently organized than Catholicism.  It would appear that I was right on that note.

Yeah, there were only four actual central leaders of Islam after Muhammad died. Even then, of course, there were fractures. Political and familial difficulties in the succession of the first four Caliphs led to the split betwee the Sunni and the Shi'a and the next several centuries have been in-fighting and dynastic empires.

If you get a chance avalanche, this week's Economist has a good article on this thread topic...