Topic: Polite and nice does not mean I'm a pushover. (Read 21326 times)

canoftuna · « **on:** March 28, 2008, 12:17:05 AM »

Sorry if this thread is stupid or pointless, but I just really needed to get this off my chest. (and not sure if this counts as a rant, so if it doesn't, my apologies!)

I'm cynical, sarcastic, and have a dry sense of humor. I get a kick out of making fun of stupid people, and if warranted, I'll make my amusement blatantly obvious. With that said, I'm a relatively nice person. Maybe I'm the only one raised with manners, but in most situations, especially ones dealing with strangers, you at least owe them basic manners.

Does being polite put a large sign over my head that says, "I'm easy, walk all over me"? Because all my life, people have tried taking advantage of my kindness and manners, and walked all over me. Today was my last day at my current (or not-so-current) job, and the store seemed to be flowing with the cream of the crap. So many times I wanted to just tell them all to go to hell since it was my last day and all, but I didn't. Because it's the polite thing to do, and my reasoning is, will I really feel better telling some rude lady to "fucking die" because she yelled at me for not having the book she wanted in stock? Will today's irritation be tomorrow's problem, or does politely walking away and forgetting about it solve the issue? Losing my cool with a stranger shows I lack maturity and the inability to reason what consequences I may have to deal with before I act. But with that method of thinking, I suspect people see me as pushover, someone unwilling to stand up for herself. And so the circle is never completed, and only repeats.

I guess my question is: do people walk over me because I refuse to be rude and/or lose my temper over trivial issues? Are they even connected? Maybe people assume I'm a pushover because I'm female and/or young. Or maybe it has nothing to do with my refusal to be rude, and more to do with my cheerful demeanor? Not saying that being friendly and bright is always a reason for people to try to take advantage of you, but I'm not very assertive either, unless in a comfortable/familiar situation. I know it's possible to stand up for yourself without being vulgar or completely rude, but it's hard for me to assume a coldly polite and aloof manner, simply because it's completely the opposite of who I am.

Anybody else struggle with similar issues?

Wunderkind · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2008, 12:42:50 AM »

Yes.

...

Damn I have to explain that now, don't I?

Alright. Here goes nothing.

All my life I've been told, "First impressions are lasting impressions." I've found that to be irrevocably true. And I would always put my "best foot forward" to make some form of good impression... And I would always come off as sweet, innocent little girl with a nice set of brains and a nice rack. Fucking pissed me off. Then, while in college, I had an epiphany.
When I tried to make a good impression I was giving people an impression of someone who was not me, and I would inevitably hear the phrase, "You surprise me," or worse, "That disappoints me" come out of their mouths. So why in hell am I'm trying to make a good impression?
Regardless of what I do to impress people, I will still end up being me, and all my good impressions will just make it harder on ME later on. Then we get into the 'be yourself' conversation.
I'm not suggesting losing all form of politeness and becoming a jackass. I'm just suggesting, not bending over backwards to please people. Funny this came up tonight. I just went through this with a guest at the hotel, like... no joke.. ten minutes before you posted.
Guy comes to the desk complaining that he's been smoking all night, there were ashtrays blah blah blah, no no-smoking signs blah blah blah, point is, there's no smoking in the lounge and the server finally told him that after he had supposedly been smoking all night. He asks me what I'm gonna do for him. I say, "Hold on a minute." Walk around to his side of the desk and ask him to walk me over to the lounge and show me this ghostly lack of no-smoking signs. He can't do it, because he knows he's lying.
I'm a smart ass. I was born a smart ass, I will die a smart ass. I was a smart ass while still in my mother's womb. I don't ever present myself as anything but a smart ass, look I just did to that guest, and I'll get away with it, because I was neither rude nor out-of-line.
Long post just to say this, I've had people trying to walk all over me for a while, then I stopped trying to make them all so happy, and they stopped fucking with me. Actually, no, that's not true, they still try to fuck with me, it's just that there's fewer of them now and they're easier to ignore. There will always be the assholes who think they can walk over anybody.

Novice · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2008, 12:53:18 AM »

Right on Wunder.

To respond to Tuna, the workplace is not a great example of a place where one can choose to be a pushover or not especially when dealing with customer service of any kind. (Unless you work for BestBuy). There is not a whole lot one can do in a situation like that unfortunately.

Personally, my philosophy is that people are inherent assholes. That's not to say I don't give them a chance. But if I catch a hint of assholery from them I stop being friendly. . .

Crud . . maybe I'm an asshole . .

Hey, sorry if I yelled at you.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2008, 09:50:55 AM »

Quote from: canoftuna on March 28, 2008, 12:17:05 AM

Sorry if this thread is stupid or pointless, but I just really needed to get this off my chest. (and not sure if this counts as a rant, so if it doesn't, my apologies!)

I'm cynical, sarcastic, and have a dry sense of humor. I get a kick out of making fun of stupid people, and if warranted, I'll make my amusement blatantly obvious. With that said, I'm a relatively nice person. Maybe I'm the only one raised with manners, but in most situations, especially ones dealing with strangers, you at least owe them basic manners.

Does being polite put a large sign over my head that says, "I'm easy, walk all over me"? Because all my life, people have tried taking advantage of my kindness and manners, and walked all over me. Today was my last day at my current (or not-so-current) job, and the store seemed to be flowing with the cream of the crap. So many times I wanted to just tell them all to go to hell since it was my last day and all, but I didn't. Because it's the polite thing to do, and my reasoning is, will I really feel better telling some rude lady to "fucking die" because she yelled at me for not having the book she wanted in stock? Will today's irritation be tomorrow's problem, or does politely walking away and forgetting about it solve the issue? Losing my cool with a stranger shows I lack maturity and the inability to reason what consequences I may have to deal with before I act. But with that method of thinking, I suspect people see me as pushover, someone unwilling to stand up for herself. And so the circle is never completed, and only repeats.

I guess my question is: do people walk over me because I refuse to be rude and/or lose my temper over trivial issues? Are they even connected? Maybe people assume I'm a pushover because I'm female and/or young. Or maybe it has nothing to do with my refusal to be rude, and more to do with my cheerful demeanor? Not saying that being friendly and bright is always a reason for people to try to take advantage of you, but I'm not very assertive either, unless in a comfortable/familiar situation. I know it's possible to stand up for yourself without being vulgar or completely rude, but it's hard for me to assume a coldly polite and aloof manner, simply because it's completely the opposite of who I am.

Anybody else struggle with similar issues?

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pbsaurus · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:05:15 PM »

Choose your battles wisely
Sometimes having a mock battle in your head will satisfy the bloodlust (plus that way you make the rules!)
You never know when you might need someone's favour in the future, so don't burn your bridges if necessary
Read the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene, it'll provide you with plenty of good tips

Wunderkind · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:10:32 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus on March 28, 2008, 03:05:15 PM

Choose your battles wisely

I suck at this step.

How do you do it anyway? At what point should the neon flashing message come up "Walk Away"? Cause I always manage to miss it.

EDIT: I'm NOT being sarcastic.

xolik · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:17:16 PM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 28, 2008, 03:10:32 PM

I suck at this step.

How do you do it anyway? At what point should the neon flashing message come up "Walk Away"? Cause I always manage to miss it.

EDIT: I'm NOT being sarcastic.

I'm kind of like that too. I just have to evaluate if there is any point whatsoever in fighting about whatever it is that's going on. Is there any chance that the other person could possibly see things my way, and if so would he ever admit to being wrong? If the answer to these questions is 'no' then don't bother.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:19:22 PM »

Just do some mental accounting. Run a few what if scenarios in your head. While you're doing this stare at this person in silence (if face to face) as it will cause great duress. If the foe must be vanquished now, the previous step will allow you to catch them off guard and you can do a surprise attack since they've been lulled.

Wunderkind · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:24:09 PM »

Quote from: xolik on March 28, 2008, 03:17:16 PM

Is there any chance that the other person could possibly see things my way, and if so would he ever admit to being wrong? If the answer to these questions is 'no' then don't bother.

Yes, see, I think between the lack of brain-to-mouth filter and the rapid-fire smart ass tendecies, the "don't bother" part is what eludes me. As soon as it is out of my mouth THEN I wonder, "Why am I arguing this point with this person?"

Quote from: pbsaurus on March 28, 2008, 03:19:22 PM

Just do some mental accounting. Run a few what if scenarios in your head. While you're doing this stare at this person in silence (if face to face) as it will cause great duress. If the foe must be vanquished now, the previous step will allow you to catch them off guard and you can do a surprise attack since they've been lulled.

I shall practice this. Thank you, sensei.

canoftuna · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:37:56 PM »

You know, after I made this thread, I got to thinking. Using the work situation, what if the customers didn't walk over me anymore than they do other employees? I tend to take things personally, and let irritating people/situations make me angrier than they should. So there's always that possibility.

Quote

I suck at this step.

How do you do it anyway? At what point should the neon flashing message come up "Walk Away"? Cause I always manage to miss it.

Same. The few times I deemed it okay to say something, it ended up being someone like.. my manager's mother, or something. I always go about doing everything the wrong way, heh.

Wunderkind · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2008, 03:48:59 PM »

Quote from: canoftuna on March 28, 2008, 03:37:56 PM

The few times I deemed it okay to say something, it ended up being someone like.. my manager's mother, or something. I always go about doing everything the wrong way, heh.

Don't feel bad. I smarted off to the Vice-pres... something or other... whatever-they-call-it of PETA. Now I'm on their black list.
Also - Random House publishing will no longer take my calls, guess why.
- The local ASPCA chapter only takes my calls for the sake of the animals, guess why.
- My college lit. professor had to resign, and although there were no formal allegations... guess why.
- And the local sheriff only asks one question if my name comes up... "What now?" (yes that's right, guess why.)
I think I have an official disease. Have they formalized Smart Ass Syndrome yet?

If you find you're affected by SAS too, please let me know, we can start a help group.

xolik · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2008, 04:19:19 PM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 28, 2008, 03:48:59 PM

- And the local sheriff only asks one question if my name comes up... "What now?" (yes that's right, guess why.)

"Hello, 911? It's Xolik. Yeah, it's stuck in the mailslot this time."

Wunderkind · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2008, 04:34:32 PM »

Quote from: xolik on March 28, 2008, 04:19:19 PM

"Hello, 911? It's Xolik. Yeah, it's stuck in the mailslot this time."

Sorry, xolik.
I shouldn't laugh at other people's troubles...

But this is going in the HECTAR thread.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2008, 10:31:39 AM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 28, 2008, 03:48:59 PM

I think I have an official disease. Have they formalized Smart Ass Syndrome yet?

If you find you're affected by SAS too, please let me know, we can start a help group.

I prefer the term Sarcopath, myself.

ivan · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2008, 11:09:08 AM »

I'm not very polite or nice, and yet I'm a complete pushover.

Go fig.

Vespertine · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2008, 12:59:49 PM »

Quote from: ivan on March 31, 2008, 11:09:08 AM

I'm not very polite or nice, and yet I'm a complete pushover.

Go fig.

SLUT!

ivan · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2008, 01:51:12 PM »

Without a doubt.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2008, 02:54:40 PM »

The trick is to keep one of those little organ-grinder's monkeys nearby on a leash. Be polite at all times, but if someone angers you, keep smiling at them and then break the monkey's neck, acting as if nothing happened. While still smiling, look them in the eye and say "fifth monkey this week."

TheJudge · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2008, 09:43:05 AM »

Being polite is actually a good thing. In this world, the reality is that often people who whine or get loud get what they want. That's simply using intimidation to get what you want. That doesn't fly with me, but not once I have I ever lost my cool. It's just not worth it. I've had to hang up on a client because they were being abusive. But that was after telling them "Sir, I understand that you're upset but I don't appreciate your language. I'd like to try and find a resolution to your problem if I can, but if you you're going to be abusive I will hang up. It's your decision Sir." Then they either cool down, or start swearing, in which case you simply hang up. If they want to behave like babies, you'll have to treat them like one. What can I say?

I'm a polite person. When someone wants someting from me that is simply unreasonable, innapropriate, or out of my scope of responsibilities, I let them throw their tantrum. Once they finish venting, I calmly explain WHY I can't do what they want and most importantly HOW they should go about resolving the issue. I am polite, but also very clear. I use words like "I understand, but..." or "I can see why you are frustrated, but...". And when someone isn't happy with my decision, I ALWAYS offer them the opportunity to file a complaint or call my boss because this shows that A - I am confident with my decision and don't care if they go up the chain, and B - it throws them off because bullies often try to use the "I'm going to talk to your supervisor" as a way to intimidate you. You're the one making the suggestion, not them. You're the one who's in control of the situation, not them, because ultimately you are the one who's accountable for your decision, not them.

Of course, in my head there's a whole different scenario. "I understand your frustrations Sir. I'm sure it's not easy to be a complete moron".

How to pick your battles is actually easy I think. When you're opposed to a specific action or decision and want to make your point, you shoudl always say something. Voice a concern, explain why its a concern and propose an alternative. If you can't do that, then your objection is of little value. Next, ask yourself the following questions:

1 - What sort fo response am I getting from my objection? (includeing the non verbal indicators) - Do I think I can get support or is this a dead end?

2 - What would happen if we proceeded with the initial course of action that I am objecting too. What are the consequences? Is it really significant at the end of the day?

3 - If I press my point, will I make enemies? In other words, would winning this battle hamper me in the future with other projects? Will I need to be supported in the future by the people I want to challenge today.

4 - Can I demonstrate that my propsal is more benefical finacially than what is currently on the table?

5 - What are the organisation's currrent priorities and does this affect them them directly? (if not, then perhaps this situation will be deemed unimportant corporatly, even if it is important to you today).

Picking a battle has much more to do with politics and the players involved then the situation itself. When you need support from the top for instance, think "what is the benefit to them", not to you. They don't care about you. In factm whenever you want to sell an idea to someone, always think "what is the benefit to them" because that's the only way you will ever rally support.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2008, 09:37:16 AM »

Quote from: TheJudge on April 03, 2008, 09:43:05 AM

words words words

Or you could just break a monkey's neck.

I'm telling you, it gets results. And jailtime. But results!

Vampire · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2008, 10:18:29 PM »

Ironicly, as much as a smart-ass ~~online~~ as I am online, I am extremely polite in real life. ~~and~~ Unfortunately, I care about peoples' well-being too much and end up being walked all over, too... Usually, I wont defend myself out of laziness or pure frustration - to the point that I just walk away so I don't actually have to beat them to death with my shoe.~~...~~

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #21 on:** April 26, 2008, 09:10:30 PM »

canoftuna · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2008, 01:36:29 PM »

Quote from: Vampire on April 25, 2008, 10:18:29 PM

Ironicly, as much as a smart-ass ~~online~~ as I am online, I am extremely polite in real life. ~~and~~ Unfortunately, I care about peoples' well-being too much and end up being walked all over, too... Usually, I wont defend myself out of laziness or pure frustration - to the point that I just walk away so I don't actually have to beat them to death with my shoe.~~...~~

Glad some other individual on these forums feels the overwhelming need to correct grammar with a red pen. Well, not technically.

ydnamtnediserp · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2008, 01:46:45 PM »

The_FOO · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2008, 12:49:08 AM »

Quote from: ydnamtnediserp on May 18, 2008, 01:46:45 PM

+1 Awesome

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