Topic: UK broadband levy - my kingdom for your onions! (Read 6963 times)

Probie · « **on:** June 17, 2009, 06:33:09 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8102756.stm

This has annoyed me quite a bit because i think that British Telecom and the people who live in remote areas should incur the cost as they are the people who stand to benefit from the work that needs to be done. But it mainly upsets me because the government is just trying to muscle in on the internet and control it even more. It makes me feel sick that they can just charge in so unashamedly and say "this is ours now".

your onions people?

12AX7 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2009, 07:02:50 AM »

Mine are the savory Vidalias:

Tasty tasty. MmmMm.

Probie · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2009, 07:22:51 AM »

those look like tasty onions.

mryellow · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2009, 08:41:12 AM »

I live in the Kingdom of Taxes, so I share your pain. If I think too much about how wrong it all is and how we all have to bend over, I might as well jump from the tallest building. Luckily there aren't any

Probie · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2009, 09:13:11 AM »

It makes me so angry, I just cant stop thinking about it.

BizB · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2009, 12:48:35 PM »

In the USA, we still pay a tax on our phone bills that was put in place to help get phone lines out to the rural areas of the country. It was put in place when they were first laying telephone lines across the country.

Probie · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2009, 01:01:16 PM »

oh dear.

that's quite annoying.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2009, 09:36:15 AM »

It's a pretty solid rule of thumb about government. Once a tax is put in place, it almost never, ever goes away, even if the original purpose for that tax is no longer relevant.

Probie · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2009, 09:44:51 AM »

It makes me feel so helpless, basically they can just do whatever they want and we can kick and scream but ultimately they just do what they want anyway. *takes a long sip on that tall glass of reality*

Reminds me of this FML I just read

Quote

Today, was my birthday. After hinting for almost 2 months for a Wii, my dad pulls out a shiny new Wii Package. The only problem? The box didn't have a Wii in it. My dad gave me a Wii box with my VCR inside and a note saying "This is life. Once you think you're happy, someone crushes it". FML

Demosthenes · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2009, 09:50:31 AM »

Ouch.

Probie · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2009, 09:52:17 AM »

Isn't that horrible?!

mryellow · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2009, 03:45:10 PM »

Actually, that is a brilliant stunt! More dads should teach those valuable lessons to their children, that way they don't grow up to be complete douchebags like so many of those young punks today. Quite a nerve too, being a teenager or something and more or less demanding & expecting those kind of outrageously expensive gifts. Parents should teach their children that life is not all about consuming and that you cannot fill that void you feel inside with a Wii or an iPhone. You could try, you will try, but it won't work. Or how about a good story about how mommy and daddy both work long hours and still have a hard time paying the mortgage. Where money comes from and that there is no tree in the garden that grows it after some nice spring showers. And that spoiled little brats keeps them up at night, wondering how they can afford his designer's clothes, school books and "look at me!" nosehair clippers. They call it "how to make him happy".

Instead, most parents try to make it happen through debt. A fine lesson to pass on. I am not above all this by the way, I fall for that same "I want it!!" trap more often that I'd like. I'll leave it at that, I am ranting. I'm tired.

12AX7 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2009, 04:41:43 PM »

Quote from: mryellow on June 23, 2009, 03:45:10 PM

Actually, that is a brilliant stunt! More dads should teach those valuable lessons to their children, that way they don't grow up to be complete douchebags like so many of those young punks today. Quite a nerve too, being a teenager or something and more or less demanding & expecting those kind of outrageously expensive gifts. Parents should teach their children that life is not all about consuming and that you cannot fill that void you feel inside with a Wii or an iPhone. You could try, you will try, but it won't work. Or how about a good story about how mommy and daddy both work long hours and still have a hard time paying the mortgage. Where money comes from and that there is no tree in the garden that grows it after some nice spring showers. And that spoiled little brats keeps them up at night, wondering how they can afford his designer's clothes, school books and "look at me!" nosehair clippers. They call it "how to make him happy".

Instead, most parents try to make it happen through debt. A fine lesson to pass on. I am not above all this by the way, I fall for that same "I want it!!" trap more often that I'd like. I'll leave it at that, I am ranting. I'm tired.

I rarely had store-bought toys growing up. Most commonly, I would see something I really really HAD to have; let it be known, wait a bit ( knowing it was a fruitless wait ), then build it myself. I built an entire baseball catcher's outfit (shinguards, chest protector, and all); a Battlestar Galactica Viper cockpit out of cardboard, magic marker, and real toggle switches and push buttons my Dad gave me to use in it; an entire suit of chain mail armor out of hanging fruit baskets; a F4U Corsair cockpit out of a huge trashcan turned on it's side (the can's 'body' was the nose of the plane) and mounted to a small rocking chair (for those dives and climbs neccessary in WWII aerial combat). There's a lot more, too, but I'm short on time right now, lol. The thing is, though, we *never* realized we didnt get the wanted toys because we didnt have the money. We just understood that in real Life; you usually DON'T get what you wanted, and that's just how it is. If you want something BAD enough; you'll find a way. If you aren't willing to find a way; then it most likely wasn't that important to begin with.
One of the funniest things (now that I look back) was that all the kids in surrounding neighborhoods (we lived in a trailer park) who's guilt-ridden, usually divorced parents would buy them whatever they asked; would come to our place to play with us and our homemade crap. I remember so many times standing in ones of my friends' bedrooms looking at all the TOYS and THINGS they had; thinking "HOLY SHIT! This kid owns EVERYTHING a child could POSSIBLY want!!" but he himself couldn't have cared less about all his 'stuff'. It was nothing to him. We would *always* end up at our trailer, playing outside with homemade toys or some such.
I dont think my Dad would've pulled such a trick (re: VCR in a Wii box) on us, though. It wasn't like he needed to "teach us a lesson"; we were living the lesson every day. This might be a good technique to use on a kid who is spoiled and doesn't appreciate what he does have or a child in danger of becoming less than thankful for a decent life. If you live your life by your principles, though, your children will pick up on this; and you needn't pull such a trick to teach anything. They will already be living by those principles.

</look at ME>

P.S.- dont take MY advice. I don't have any kids.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2009, 05:59:44 PM »

My kid would rather play with the packaging than the actual toy.

Probie · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2009, 06:12:44 AM »

The Prime Minister has a glass eye!

I think the lesson was a little too harsh! My parents did bend over backwards to give me what i wanted sometimes at the cost of other things that weren't so important to me or them. I knew that we weren't the most well off people and I couldn't just have anything any time. But for birthdays and Christmas we usually got the gift we wanted.

I think that if you teach your kids love and respect and gratitude then the rest usually follows with it. I'm not going to rant on about it because I think it something we all almost agree upon.

12, you sound like you were a cool kid, my dad used to make go-karts, swords, stilts and stuff with us out of old pieces of wood and push chairs. My dad was so cool to have because he knows what kids liked, mainly to be played with and to play pretend!

Vespertine · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2009, 01:51:01 PM »

Quote from: Probie on June 24, 2009, 06:12:44 AM

The Prime Minister has a glass eye!

Huh? Link please.

Quote

I think that if you teach your kids love and respect and gratitude then the rest usually follows with it. I'm not going to rant on about it because I think it something we all almost agree upon.

I think you'd be surprised how many people completely disagree with you. I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the people running around with serious senses of entitlement were "loved and respected and shown gratitude" when they were kids. In fact, I think that's exactly the problem. Those people were shown too much (or a bizarre version of) those sentiments.

Probie · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2009, 01:55:47 PM »

Quote from: Vespertine on June 24, 2009, 01:51:01 PM

Huh? Link please.
I think you'd be surprised how many people completely disagree with you. I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the people running around with serious senses of entitlement were "loved and respected and shown gratitude" when they were kids. In fact, I think that's exactly the problem. Those people were shown too much (or a bizarre version of) those sentiments.

http://www.gordonbrown.com/2007/06/gordon-brown-biography.html

"His passion for sports however resulted in a rugby accident which left him blind in one eye.To this day he has to wear a glass eye and were it not for the skill of the doctors he may have lost his other eye."

But I didn't say "were, 'loved and respected and shown gratitude' " I said "teach your kids love and respect and gratitude" didn't I?

Which are two quite entirely different things.

mryellow · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2009, 03:40:10 PM »

Quote

I dont think my Dad would've pulled such a trick (re: VCR in a Wii box) on us, though. It wasn't like he needed to "teach us a lesson"; we were living the lesson every day. This might be a good technique to use on a kid who is spoiled and doesn't appreciate what he does have or a child in danger of becoming less than thankful for a decent life. If you live your life by your principles, though, your children will pick up on this; and you needn't pull such a trick to teach anything. They will already be living by those principles.

I think you are right. I suppose I find it hard to distinguish kids from brats in general and lump them all together: I just don't seem to care much for children. I don't quite see how that is going to change, people around me are popping out babies already, so it is no longer an age thing

I just don't like when parents make their poorly behaving children my business (I mainly just want to be left alone in PEACE) and IMHO those parents are in the majority these days (and here in Holland you cannot avoid them either, we are all too crammed together). It is not my place to explain to either the parents or the children why the hell they can't just NOT annoy other people, but I still find it hard to understand why they can't just 'see' that themselves. Is it really so hard to be considerative of other people, in general? It seems that way.

You also raise an interesting point. I do think children who are 'less well off' might indeed be better off in the long run, simply because they have more an imagination and build-in gratitude when things do come their way. And they suffer less (and take it out on others) when things don't. It is really quite amazing what can make kids actually happy. I bet any kid would take hitting a ball with his patient dad in the park over virtually doing that alone with an overpriced Wii, for example. Also, isn't happily anticipating your birthday a lot more fun if you don't know what your gifts might be? I'd hate to be that parent that must buy that over-expensive gift for his kid or he won't be happy, where's the joy in that for him?

Quote

I think that if you teach your kids love and respect and gratitude then the rest usually follows with it. I'm not going to rant on about it because I think it something we all almost agree upon.

You would think so, but how do you "teach your kids love and respect and gratitude"? There are no rule books and most people are in desperate need of one. See, if only the gratitude element in this equation is missing, you end up with ego-centrical people who think highly of themselves, tramp all over their loving parents to get what they want and learned to manipulate others into the same behaviour and are completely oblivious to how other might perceive their actions. Those are the people who might not even be aware that their behaviour is annoying other people, they don't even read the body language because they are simply so focussed on their own needs. Also, if the parents were raised the same way, how are they to see that what they are doing is wrong?

Now if you'll all excuse me, I am going to put up "keep your children on a leash at all time" signs in my neigbhourhood

(really, despite my rant, I am not yet a grumpy, bitter old man...

)

Probie · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2009, 04:32:25 AM »

Quote from: mryellow on June 25, 2009, 03:40:10 PM

You would think so, but how do you "teach your kids love and respect and gratitude"? There are no rule books and most people are in desperate need of one. See, if only the gratitude element in this equation is missing, you end up with ego-centrical people who think highly of themselves, tramp all over their loving parents to get what they want and learned to manipulate others into the same behaviour and are completely oblivious to how other might perceive their actions. Those are the people who might not even be aware that their behaviour is annoying other people, they don't even read the body language because they are simply so focussed on their own needs. Also, if the parents were raised the same way, how are they to see that what they are doing is wrong?

Now if you'll all excuse me, I am going to put up "keep your children on a leash at all time" signs in my neigbhourhood
(really, despite my rant, I am not yet a grumpy, bitter old man... )

1. I didn't say how it was done, I just said IF it was done (I am childless LOL). I can only imagine it is no easy task, and sometimes people miss the mark a little, but it doesn't mean that the product is a bad person or a brat. It just means they're not perfect, which lets face it! who is?

2. Not so IMO, if gratitude is missing, then there is still love and respect, so whilst they my not be very gracious they do love people and and have respect. But I personally don't think we are talking about being with or without a single attribute, people have measures of different attributes, its not black and white. All parents can do is there best.

3. This is a really shitting thing, and a cycle like this is hard to break out of. But it can happen, I've seen it.

Please don't think for a second that I presume to know how to raise children, i think it's probably the most difficult thing to do in the world. I have a few ideas, but when it comes to actioning those on my own children I guess it will come down a lot to just winging it. Making judgement calls. Luckily; my parents taught me right from wrong in there eyes and I've used that as a bench mark on how to treat people and it's served me well so far. Hopefully the lessons I've learned from them, I can pass on. So to bring this back to the semi original point (wii issue), I think there are more real situation to teach your children than to be outright cruel on there birthday's.

Finally, I am quitting these debates as writing out these long posts drives me crazy! Roll'on audio clips in forum! Did I just have an innovative idea?

mryellow · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2009, 06:50:47 PM »

Hihi I know what you mean Probie, but isn't it fun in a weird kind of way too?

Probie · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:37:23 AM »

as much as I think "oh I can't be bothered getting into this" at the same time I'm thinking "but i have something to say!!!!" hehe. Makes me think of an XKCD comic i saw.

It's a lot better to do it when there is not animosity around it though

x

Clear_Runway · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2009, 09:32:53 AM »

50p a month!?

I wouldn't even pay 50$ a month, without taxes.

xolik · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:54:37 PM »

Quote from: Clear_Runway on August 17, 2009, 09:32:53 AM

50p a month!? I wouldn't even pay 50$ a month, without taxes.

Then tell me, what would you pay? For a Klondike bar, that is.

Clear_Runway · « **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:51:22 PM »

mind you, that figure is for internet, not internet+phone

as for Klondike bars...at least 50p

Min · « **Reply #24 on:** August 19, 2009, 02:06:10 PM »

I'd teach summer school for a Klondike Bar. Last year the principal bought Klondikes for us every Thursday. I complained at the time because I was trying to trim up for my wedding. But now I wish I had one.

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Author Topic: UK broadband levy - my kingdom for your onions! (Read 6963 times)

12AX7

12AX7