Topic: Transhumanism (Read 14615 times)

Twizted · « **on:** November 23, 2007, 07:16:41 PM »

Transhumanism is converging our biological components and technological components to further our human condition. Some say that it's unethical to "play god" with the human condition. Personally, I'm all for "playing god". I say we do whatever we can to further our evolution, until we reach the singularity. I say man should be in control of his own evolution!

What do you say?(Please only serious responses)

BizB · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2007, 07:43:54 PM »

I'm all for improving our condition and extending my life.

Here's some grist for the mill... http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html

Apollyon · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2007, 10:25:22 PM »

the book series I'm reading right now talks a lot about breeding programs and selective breeding in humans to single out specific traits of DNA. Its scifi, but its a really interesting read.

I guess the whole idea of transhumanism would be taboo for many religions, so the idea of actually putting into play many changes would pose a problem. I think it would be amazing if we could eliminate many of the organs in the human body, exchange them for mechanical organs. It would eliminate many problems like heart disease, possibly sicknesses like colds and stuff.

Interesting thought, your body could tell you if it had any problems. I don't know if slowing down the aging process would be a good thing though, unless you combine it with controlled reproduction... People think overpopulation is a problem now, wait until the average life span is 500 years. The idea of getting rid of postgenderism though... yeah, not a big fan of that.

I guess if the world were to put less money into killing each other and more into ideas like this anything is possible

Paladin · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:03:39 AM »

I'm so gonna upload myself the first chance i get (well, not the first chance, i'll wait a little to be sure that the interface works ok, but as soon as possible).
Now let's get started on the work on the necessary hardware.

If that will be proven not to work, then i'm for AI's as smart as possible, the Matrix/Frankenstein scenario is pretty stupid. I just hope i'll live long enough to see the singularity.

I really don't understand why so many people are against any progress, always yelling "We should not play god" about everything. There probably were a few of those the first time someone started to wear animal fur to keep them warm: "Sonny, if God wanted you to be warm, He would've given you more hair!" and "I don't care that this fire thing is the new fad, i'm not having it near my cave!".

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2007, 09:23:11 AM »

Quote from: Paladin on November 24, 2007, 07:03:39 AM

I really don't understand why so many people are against any progress

Because progress != good or better.

Atom Bomb?
Skynet?
1984?

Paladin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2007, 09:30:25 AM »

Skynet and 1984 are works of fiction. Skynet (i suppose you're talking about the Terminator series) is also a stupid example of Frankenstein complex.

The atom bomb was scientist's work taken by politicians and military and used in a certain way, not pure science. And anyway, even about that one can argue that it ended a war that could've kept going on for a long time with the result of much more lives lost, and that it prevented another later on (USSR-USA).

progress so = good or better

Twizted · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2007, 10:03:04 AM »

What do you guys think of a meta-brain? That, and a robot body to keep you alive forever.

Apollyon · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2007, 10:21:59 AM »

progress doesn't always equal good or better, and progress doesn't always mean bad things.

If you don't agree that the atom thing was a bad thing science created, what about guns? The only things you can really do with a gun are hunt and kill each other. A rifle is good enough to do any hunting you would ever need to do. So where was the human progress in creating machine guns? We continued to create more powerful weapons in order to do nothing more than kill each other. We now have weapons that can wipe out entire cities via instant obliteration or slow death from biological weapons. How does this further our human race?

Scientific progress has definitely brought out good things though. In example, the light bulb, vaccinations, cars, trains, planes, automobiles, the refrigerator, and stem cell research is just making a breakthrough.

Scientists can create great things when they aren't working for the sole purpose of helping us kill each other. A lot of people are against certain types of progress because it goes against their morals. If transhumanism works out in the end, then anyone against it will be weeded out in the end by way of natural selection, as in the case of cavemen and fire.

Quote from: Paladin on November 24, 2007, 07:03:39 AM

"I don't care that this fire thing is the new fad, i'm not having it near my cave!".

Quote from: Twizted on November 24, 2007, 10:03:04 AM

What do you guys think of a meta-brain? That, and a robot body to keep you alive forever.

I don't know what to say about that. There is a part of me that would love to live forever, to be able to see everything there is to see, do everything there was to do. To have the chance to find out what the future holds in store for humankind. However another part of me says this is wrong, to live for ever is to deny the chance to see the other side of that opaque wall that is death. That part of me also asks what changes we would have to make in order to live as a machine. Would we have to think as computers do too? Would we look at a bird in the sky and instantly have come to mind everything relevant to that particular bird? The mathematics behind its flight? It's food, habitat, and breeding habits? Would say, an artist be able to draw inspiration from that bird in the sky and draw a beautiful painting from it? I don't think I like the idea of an entire world of thinkers of nothing but logic, no creativity. Even with the physical changes, could we someday replicate all of the senses, feelings, and emotions we have now?
hey twizted I have been reading a book series called Dune. It is scifi, but the topics in these books encompass the idea of putting your brain into a robotic body, transhumanism, selective breeding in humans, and organ growth along with many other interesting things like self aware AI systems, and religious government systems. Its a very good read, I highly recommend it to you.

Twizted · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2007, 12:45:22 PM »

On guns and other war-time weapons: Isaac Asimov had it right in saying that fighting amongst ourselves has caused some great advancements in our technology. Without war, we would probably not have cell phones, our medicine would not have become as speed-based, and, get this, our computers would not be as advanced. We may not agree that war, in and of itself, is good, but it has caused some major advancements.

BizB · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2007, 01:16:00 PM »

But, that's only because we expend the most resources on preparing for war, waging war and avoiding war. If we were to put the same effort toward, oh... I don't know, the ultimate cookie perhaps, then you'd be able to say the same thing about baking.

Mmmmmm cookies

Twizted · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2007, 02:22:12 PM »

You've got a point...

Paladin · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2007, 02:28:54 PM »

Quote

However another part of me says this is wrong, to live for ever is to deny the chance to see the other side of that opaque wall that is death.

Do you think that rotting or being burned might be interesting experiences? Even if I'd still had a functionally nervous system and brain to experience them, i'd pass that pleasure.

Anyway, it's not possible to live forever. Even barring accidents and suicide, all you can hope for is the lifespan of the universe, so you'd only live until the Big Crunch or the heat death of the universe. Not bad though

If you're interested in reading more "serious" SF, try the dude that BizB linked to earlier, Vernon Vinge. Or other "hard" SF. While i enjoyed reading Dune a long time ago, other writers wrote more interesting stories about this topic, and they have more idea what they're talking about. For example V.V. is a programmer. And Dune is pretty much Fantasy, not science-fiction.

Apollyon · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:13:29 PM »

Quote from: Paladin on November 24, 2007, 02:28:54 PM

Do you think that rotting or being burned might be interesting experiences? Even if I'd still had a functionally nervous system and brain to experience them, i'd pass that pleasure.

I really doubt you will be feeling much of either of these. I was actually referring to the idea of life after death. As far as I know the only people who really know what happens when you die aren't very talkative.

Quote from: Paladin on November 24, 2007, 02:28:54 PM

Anyway, it's not possible to live forever. Even barring accidents and suicide, all you can hope for is the lifespan of the universe, so you'd only live until the Big Crunch or the heat death of the universe.

Accidents and Suicide really wouldn't be a problem when your body is a robot. The only thing you would really have to worry about is human caused destruction or, as you said, the end of the universe.

http://www.dunenovels.com/classic.html
"Selling millions of copies worldwide, it is science fiction's..."
Dune has fantasy elements but it was written as a science fiction book
I didn't say Dune was a great read that would teach him everything he needed to know about this topic, I said it was an interesting read. It introduced new thoughts and questions to me about transhumanism and it is an easy read. Vernor Vinge is an extremely smart individual and a leader of the singularity idea. Yes I agree that if you want loads of research on this topic, hes your man. However, don't put off Frank Herbert's work as silly stories. He was a brilliant author and many people have great respect for his work. It just doesn't delve into singular topics like Vernor Vinge and others like him do.

TheJudge · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2007, 10:15:40 AM »

Quote from: Apollyon on November 24, 2007, 03:13:29 PM

Accidents and Suicide really wouldn't be a problem when your body is a robot.

But what about sex? Staments like "Hey Bubay, it's time for an oil change" would be so confusing!

Twizted · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2007, 05:21:43 PM »

We need sex now. Who says we'll need sex then? And if we want that kind of plesure, we could do it (no pun intended) through mental stimuli. i.e.- Demolition Man. The two had sex by wearing helmets that introduced the visuals and physical stimuli of real sex.

RelandR · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2007, 08:22:57 PM »

Easy now, let's not forget that Robosexuals have feelings too.

12AX7 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2007, 11:24:18 PM »

I would hate to live forever. I don't think I'd like seeing everyone I know and love grow old and die; and then -again- everyone I know and love grow old and die; and then -again- everyone I know and love grow old and die. . . what a shitty way to pass eternal time. That sounds like Hell, actually.
I'm in no hurry to go, but when it's time; yeh. Get me the fuck up outta this place.

12AX7 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2007, 11:32:43 PM »

Besides that; in this world of "humabots" or "robmans", who decides who gets to live, and who has to be terminated? Because, as you know, there are WAAAAYAYAYAYYYYYYy to fucking many of us here NOW. Earth could stand a good flea-dip. So... if there's waaaayyyy too many now; and by the time you reach this advanced state Im sure there would have been other, life-extending technologies, medical, breakthroughs in fertility science, etc.etc; resulting in much longer lifespans and a higher healthy-baby birth rate. . . who decides who has to go?

reimero · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2007, 09:32:53 AM »

Quote from: Agent_Tachyon on November 29, 2007, 12:26:22 AM

I think transhumanism is about the most retarded thing I've ever heard of. I'm sorry but it's the truth. It's ludicrous for more reasons than I can think of.

QFT

Demosthenes · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2007, 01:05:57 PM »

Quote from: 12AX7 on November 28, 2007, 11:32:43 PM

Besides that; in this world of "humabots" or "robmans", who decides who gets to live, and who has to be terminated? Because, as you know, there are WAAAAYAYAYAYYYYYYy to fucking many of us here NOW. Earth could stand a good flea-dip. So... if there's waaaayyyy too many now; and by the time you reach this advanced state Im sure there would have been other, life-extending technologies, medical, breakthroughs in fertility science, etc.etc; resulting in much longer lifespans and a higher healthy-baby birth rate. . . who decides who has to go?

That'd be me.

reimero · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2007, 04:16:29 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on November 29, 2007, 01:05:57 PM

That'd be me.

Also QFT.

12AX7 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2007, 02:03:46 AM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on November 29, 2007, 01:05:57 PM

That'd be me.

You, sir, need to get on the ball.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2007, 09:40:37 AM »

Quote from: 12AX7 on November 30, 2007, 02:03:46 AM

You, sir, need to get on the ball.

I've already been deciding.

12AX7 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2007, 10:00:10 AM »

* 12AX7 gets excited

Can you just imagine! ... 153 miles, and you only see about eight cars! And you'd already know they're smart, and good drivers because they're there (still). Nirvana.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2007, 12:04:39 PM »

Just remove warning labels from everything and let the world sort itself out.

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Author Topic: Transhumanism (Read 14615 times)

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