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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[BizB]

From wikipedia (because I still refuse to visit your spamilicious site)

• 2007, December: Debates within FedCom begin to question the land claims in Australia, and the government begins to explore additional alternative locations
• 2008, January: FedCom abandons prospects of claiming land in Australia, and sets its sights firmly on west-central Africa

We have been ironing out the details and reviewing the plan for years.  We know what we are doing, and accept the risks.

Translation: We have been fucked up in our heads playing little games on the interwebs pretending to be nation-building when we really have only done some test on weapons that we shouldn't be playing with and we failed miserably at each of them.  We do, however, accept our own [insert derogatory self evaluation here].

[Terminator_484]

The location and motivation changed.  The plan to create a new nation has not changed in over 15 years.

[BizB]

No, perhaps not.  However, your claim of caring for the people of Africa certainly has.

You're a pathetic opportunist who wishes to play on the sympathies of those who would be led to feel guilty for living in the most prosperous nation on the planet.  That's why you've been regarded with such disdain since your first post, here.  And, I'm sure that any other site where you've posted your SPAM with a modicum of intelligence has greeted you similarly.

Go touch yourself.

[Wunderkind]

Then who would stop the rebels when they come to burn their villages, rape the women, murder the men, and kidnap the children to be forced into servitude as sex slaves or child soldiers, eh?
In northeast Congo, the women spend every night hiding in the banana trees groves to keep from being raped.  They are afraid to sleep in their own homes.  Rape is a weapon of war in this area.

I suppose people like YOU want these things to continue indefinitely.  "Oh, it's not our war...  We can't intervene, so we'll just let them get tied to a tree and disemboweled...  We'll watch it on CNN, but since we can't do anything about the injustice, we'll just feel sorry for a minute, then go to McDonald's for a Big Mac." 

And you speak about what is right and wrong... 

I support REAL organizations that are CURRENTLY making a change and doing REAL things to protect the tribal communities, instead pissing people off in a web forum.

Getting tied to a tree and being disemboweled by an opposing tribe is actually a very honorable way to die in some cultures.

I don't watch CNN.

I CAN do something about the injustice, but is certainly isn't supporting a nation that doesn't exist that lays claim to land it does not own.

I don't feel sorry for anyone. Pity is a useless emotion that only encourages stupidity and wallowing.

And finally...
I don't eat MacDonald's. I think MacDonald's is poison no one should put in their bodies. And I don't support large, international, capitalistic, culture-forcing, machine industries, since they crush local agriculture and economies.

[Terminator_484]

Getting tied to a tree and being disemboweled by an opposing tribe is actually a very honorable way to die in some cultures.

And I suppose you think being raped by 20 men before they disembowel you is an honorable tradition...

I CAN do something about the injustice, but is certainly isn't supporting a nation that doens't exist that lays claim to land it does not own.

Per requirements laid down by the Montevideo Convention, FedCom IS a real nation.  Foreign recognition is NOT a prerequisite to nationhood, and most nations do not actually own the land within their borders: their citizens do.  National borders are created through treaties, usually preceded by military action.  Somebody does not have to buy rights to the property first: a government takes it, and if they can defend it, it is theirs.

I don't feel sorry for anyone. Pity is a useless emotion that only encourages stupidity and wallowing.

Agreed; pity is useless and makes a person weak, but most people are more emotional.

I don't eat MacDonald's. I think MacDonald's is poison no one should put in their bodies.

Good.  Too bad more Americans don't agree with you... 
I have boycotted the trash they serve at McDonald's for many years.

And I don't support large, international, capitalistic, culture-forcing, machine industries, since they crush local agriculture and economies.

Neither do I. 
If you think FedCom is a capitalist nation, you could not be further from the truth.  We are egalitarian socialists.  Even though we do not agree with their philosophy, communists make better friends than greedy self-centered capitalists.

[Terminator_484]

And I think we understand you just fine. We mock you because we DO understand you and we think you are poorly prepared...

Your understanding is a mere delusion, and you have no idea how prepared or dedicated we are.

Your ridiculous topic couldn't be considered "serious" by any thinking person.

Regardless, it is serious, and was presented as an informative announcement.  Your agreement is unnecessary, and does not change reality.

Did you READ any of the posts in this forum before vomitting up a thread like this?

I did, and have yet to find anything on this forum at least half as intelligent as this topic.

[Wunderkind]

I'm confused now, but I think that was you're point.

The territory we have selected is sheltered from these hot spots, and such activity serves to divert attention away from our activities.

Then who would stop the rebels when they come to burn their villages

Which is it? Are you going to be sheltered from the deep shit? Or are you wading right out into the middle of it, like a the "real heroes" you're making yourselves out to be?

Oh, and by the way,

Regardless, it is serious, and was presented as an informative announcement.  Your agreement is unnecessary, and does not change reality.

Reality is a question of belief. Seriousness is a question of choice. I choose to laugh at your foolishness, and I believe you are fools.
You're right, my agreement is unnecessary. And so is anyone else's apparently.
But that does not change reality.
All of you are idiots.   

[BizB]

Per requirements laid down by the Per requirements laid down by the Montevideo Convention, FedCom IS a real nation.

Oh?  Really?  You don't even pass the first requirement of the first test! 
The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
You don't have a "permanent population".  Hell, you don't even have a transitory population.
Secondly, you fail the next part, too.  You may have defined a territory, but you have no legal claim to it.

  Foreign recognition is NOT a prerequisite to nationhood, and most nations do not actually own the land within their borders: their citizens do.

And yet FedCom can claim neither.

National borders are created through treaties, usually preceded by military action.

Please identify the treaty whereby FedCom acquired the land they claim as their own.

Somebody does not have to buy rights to the property first: a government takes it, and if they can defend it, it is theirs.,

Oh?  I suppose the Louisiana Purchase, the purchase of Manhattan, and Alaska - among others - were wastes of money, then?

[Wunderkind]

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

Oh good, so SOMEBODY's agreement is necessary.

[Terminator_484]

Which is it? Are you going to be sheltered from the deep shit? Or are you wading right out into the middle of it, like a the "real heroes" you're making yourselves out to be?

Our nation's borders are sheltered from the violence by several other nations who are not part of the fighting.  The safe evacuation of refugees from these areas is also a top priority.

To put it in the simplest way, we intend to escort the refugees from the war zones to safety in our new nation, saving their lives and giving them new hope.

The offer is open and free: the refugees can choose to make the journey or stay in danger: it is their choice alone.  We are NOT barbarian Americans prodding the natives at gunpoint along a bloody trail in a forced march!  We want to give these people a second chance at life.  For those who relocate, FedCom will offer citizenship, suitable residence, sustenance, and employment in a trade of their choice.  They will have the opportunity to participate in our nation.  If they decide not to participate and help FedCom grow, they will simply be shown the way to our neighbor; there is nothing compelling them to stay in FedCom if they do not wish to.

[Terminator_484]

Please identify the treaty whereby FedCom acquired the land they claim as their own.

Please identify the treaty whereby Kosovo acquired the land they claim as their own. 
   They didn't: they just lived there long enough to call it "their land", then sent a declaration of independence when they got sick of Serbia's attitude.

FedCom has always planned to follow a similar route: move in, build, live in peace, and tally up the grievances and arguments we have with what we call the "host nation".  Then, when we can't stand the host's demands any longer, and we have the military power to hold our ground, we send our own declaration of independence, and brace for the fallout.  And just for the record, we are not trying to copy Kosovo (I just use it as a recent example of how a new nation can be made); technically, the goal of FedCom sovereignty is older than the Baltic Wars that spawned the current situation with Kosovo.  And yes, FedCom does support their independence, since Serbia voided the social contract when they attacked the Albanians living there.

There is MUCH more than that, but that is the smallest a stripped-down summary can get.


To answer your question:
   Since FedCom has not yet delivered a declaration of independence, such a treaty has not been written yet.

I suppose the Louisiana Purchase, the purchase of Manhattan, and Alaska - among others - were wastes of money, then?

I said "Somebody does not have to buy rights to the property first". 
A purchase CAN be a means to expand territory, but it is NOT a means to create a new nation.  Buying the land beforehand is just a waste of time, since a private land purchase is little more than a lease from the local government. 
Owning land grants you no legal basis for justifying secession.

Oh good, so SOMEBODY's agreement is necessary.

No, it isn't.  Recognition as a sovereign state is not required for a state to exist as such. 
Every nation on the planet could suddenly say that North Korea is not a nation, yet it will remain a de facto sovereign state.  That fact cannot change with mere words.

[BizB]

Does your failure to address my other points constitute concession of those points?

If so, your argument is lost.

[Wunderkind]

Look! He's using Latin again!

The more you type, the more like a barbarian you sound. In fact, you're starting to sound eeriely LIKE the barbarian America that forced the Ojibwe up into Canada. Keep digging please. The hole needs to be 6' x 6' x 4'.

(Oh, no, no. You misunderstand. Really we ARE here to help. We know the winter is hard on you, so here, have some nice blankets, and this unique beverage we brought with us helps to keep you warm! What? Our military force? That barbed-wire fence? Oh nevermind them. They're just here to guard you from other attacking tribes. No really! We want peace!)

[Terminator_484]

Does your failure to address my other points constitute concession of those points?

Not at all. 
I already pointed out that owning a title to the land is not a requirement to claiming the land.  In fact, throughout history, a new nation is almost always created from land that another government had already claimed.

FedCom's permanent population does currently reside within our defined territory, but there is nothing in the Convention that says a population must reside within the defined borders.  Of course, this is a point we aim to rectify as soon as possible.  Most of our citizens will have relocated to our African territory within a few years...

Both of your points assume that FedCom recognizes the Montevideo Convention as law (when we clearly never signed it).  Quoting the Convention is merely an easy way of making a point, since it is a well known and widely accepted document.  Technically, FedCom is not a party to any international treaties or organizations, and is not bound to any of them or so-called "international law".  Yet, at the same time, as a prospective member of the international community, we respect as many of these conventions and laws as possible.

The more you type, the more like a barbarian you sound. In fact, you're starting to sound eerily LIKE the barbarian America that forced the Ojibwe up into Canada.

Nonsense.  You are using scare tactics.
We have no intention of forcing any natives anywhere.  Our offer to the locals is simple: join our project and reap the rewards, or keep living as you currently are and we will leave you in peace.  No strings are attached.

We are not imperialist conquerers, but if you don't want to listen to that, you don't have to.  You can remain ignorant and wrong if you like.

[Wunderkind]

Keep digging, it's not deep enough yet.

[BizB]

Not at all. 

Please, by all means, take all the time you need, then.

[BizB]

And now, something completely different.

DENNIS:  Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis
    for a system of government.  Supreme executive power derives from a mandate
    from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR:  Be quiet!
DENNIS:  Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
    'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR:  Shut up!
DENNIS:  I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some
    moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
ARTHUR:  Shut up, will you.  Shut up!
DENNIS:  Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR:  Shut up!
DENNIS:  Oh!  Come and see the violence inherent in the system!  Help, help!
    I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR:  Bloody peasant!
DENNIS:  Oh, what a give-away.  Did you hear that?  Did you hear that, eh?
    That's what I'm on about.  Did you see him repressing me?  You saw it,
    didn't you?

[Terminator_484]

Please, by all means, take all the time you need, then.

I have already addressed all your points.  I am not about to begin repeating myself for the likes of you.

[BizB]

The likes of me?  Whatever is that supposed to mean?  Is that a veiled insult?

You've not addressed several of my points.  I, however, am not above a direct insult as you may have noticed.  So, dipshit, I'll list those points that you've yet to address.

What makes you believe that you can export your style of governance to another part of the world?
I'd love to know which existing nation is going to allow you to change their borders without bloodshed. -- You've potentially addressed this indirectly as you've stated that you intend to succeed from a nation and fight the good fight until you prevail.  I just want to make sure that you intended to convey that message.  Because, as you are well aware, the warlords of the nations you are likely to encounter will rape your women and disembowel them while they're tied to the very banana trees that they were hiding in, regardless of whether it's your new nation or the existing tribes that are putting up the resistance to their continued success in the region.

You don't give a shit about the people of Africa.  You never have.  All you're looking for is land on the continent to claim as your own so that you can build your stupid communist utopia.


You're a pathetic opportunist who wishes to play on the sympathies of those who would be led to feel guilty for living in the most prosperous nation on the planet.
You don't have a "permanent population".  Hell, you don't even have a transitory population.
Secondly, you fail the next part, too.  You may have defined a territory, but you have no legal claim to it.

Your comment regarding what makes FedCom a real nation was weak at best.  You sited the Montevideo Convention as your basis of recognition, then when called on the carpet regarding the requirements under that same document, you said...
"Both of your points assume that FedCom recognizes the Montevideo Convention as law (when we clearly never signed it).  Quoting the Convention is merely an easy way of making a point, since it is a well known and widely accepted document. "

Isn't it nasty of me to point out that you're a weak debater?

Go ahead, call me names.  I've lowered the standard to that point.

Now, allow me to bring up some other questions, since I'm in a mood to type.
What is the purpose of presenting your original post here on geekforum.org?  You claim it wasn't SPAM.  What was the purpose, then?
I assume that since you're part of the 'population' (I'd love to see your definition of that word for the purposes of supporting your argument) of FedCom, you've given up your citizenship within the United States and that you're currently here on a Green Card or some other type of Visa.  Would that be correct?
Why is your top level domain that of the country Nauru?  If you're recognized as a nation, certainly you would have your own top level domain, right?  Oh! Wait, I got it!  all ".com" domains are that of FedCom, right?
And, finally, why do you persist?

[Wunderkind]

He persists because he hasn't reached the proper depth yet. He's nailed the 6' x 4', but he's not 6' deep yet.

[xolik]

This has to be an elaborate troll. We've got everything we need.

• hay guyz I CARE MORE THAN YOU about Africa
• To prove how much smarter I am than you plebes, here's some Latin I saw somebody type once on my Dragonball Z forum in the "Vegita\Goku who has the biggest dick?" thread
• I'm not going to address any points I don't already have canned responses for and did I mention how much of a better person I am than you are yet?
• aaaaaaaannnnnnnd what would be complete without the "I AM SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU I DON'T NAME CALL ERGO I WIN RATIONAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST ME BE DAMNED"
• Plus, KKKaptialism

In before OMG UR SO MEANZ I'M LEAFING 4EVA!!1!!

I have already addressed all your points.  I am not about to begin repeating myself for the likes of you.

Yeah, man, you tell us. Fuck having to try to actually get your point across in a non-douchbag, condescending way.

[Wunderkind]

You forgot,

     "I'm right and you're wrong, but I don't have to prove it to you, you don't have accept it, but I have to keep insisting my point, because it's the only point I know how to make and that makes me right and you wrong.  "

[12AX7]

I let you live long enough to state your case and defend yourself. Now you're fast becoming an annoying asshole. If you cannot state your case and defend it on its merits (which WILL be tested here) without insulting -veiled or otherwise- my regular members; then move on, or I will ban you from the site permanently. Taking into consideration the minds and brainpower registered on this site, your loss would be HUGE.
 There will be no further warnings.

[BizB]

The loss to you would be much larger than the loss of you, FedCom d00d.

[12AX7]

I've wanted to take over a small country myself for awhile now. I'm certain I could succeed. I've done it several times already on the XboX.
 This Fedcom doesn't sound very stout militarily; maybe I should start saving. . .