Topic: Telling me I shouldn't is one thing... (Read 5451 times)

Wunderkind · « **on:** March 26, 2008, 04:41:17 AM »

Telling me I can't is another.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694159/

We all know the government doesn't think we can make informed decisions as adults on our own anymore, but when I saw this I nearly gagged.

Next thing you know they'll be telling me what books I should read and who I should be talking too...
God, I sounded like my bat-shit religious wing-nut father just then.

Anyway... Salt? Are you kidding me? Informing me about the salt content is one thing, telling me I shouldn't eat it is fabulous (knowledge is power), but suddenly deciding I can't? God man, it's SALT!

12AX7 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 26, 2008, 02:58:09 PM »

They have CHEESE on that list.

Blasphemy.

Novice · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2008, 04:22:34 PM »

That list made me hungry.

Since when does the government care how fast I'm killing myself?

I'm going to go out for pizza, breakfast, and tacos. . . . Let's just say, out of spite.

Agent_Tachyon · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2008, 04:26:11 PM »

Wasn't it Demolition Man where the government banned salt all together?

sociald1077 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2008, 04:27:29 PM »

Now I am all for being able to do what ever, when ever I want. But I feel torn on issues such as food and what it contains. I eat McDonald's knowing full well it is horrible for me. I love burgers, fries, and the Cheesy Gordita Crunch from Taco Bell. I have read Fast Food Nation and still I am drawn into these opium food dens. Now if the government is going to step in and say "Hey food companies, clean up your food. Make it a little more healthy." who am I complain about it.

I think its a slippery slope to say that government forcing food companies to clean up there food a bit is going to then lead to them telling me exactly what I can and can not eat. Big Brother is not telling me I can't eat, its telling the corporations that I buy food from what to do.

And if I find the food is lacking, there is always the salt shaker at the table.

Wunderkind · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2008, 04:59:37 PM »

Quote from: sociald1077 on March 26, 2008, 04:27:29 PM

Now I am all for being able to do what ever, when ever I want. But I feel torn on issues such as food and what it contains. I eat McDonald's knowing full well it is horrible for me. I love burgers, fries, and the Cheesy Gordita Crunch from Taco Bell. I have read Fast Food Nation and still I am drawn into these opium food dens. Now if the government is going to step in and say "Hey food companies, clean up your food. Make it a little more healthy." who am I complain about it.

I think its a slippery slope to say that government forcing food companies to clean up there food a bit is going to then lead to them telling me exactly what I can and can not eat. Big Brother is not telling me I can't eat, its telling the corporations that I buy food from what to do.

And if I find the food is lacking, there is always the salt shaker at the table.

I'm one those backwoods country bumpkins who makes half the shit on that list herself anyway. I don't buy it, so the list doesn't really concern me that much (until they put a cap on how salt a private citizen can buy, that is).

My point was more along the lines of...

They now think we're four and can't decide for ourselves what to eat for dinner anymore. If you don't have a problem with it, fine. There are plenty of websites that will be happy to tell you what to buy, where, and when to eat it. I just don't think it's a matter the government should get involved in.

Since when does the government have the right to put a ban on what I put in my body as fuel? You're making a conscience decision as an adult to eat those foods, because you like them. If you want to stop, but find you're addicted, there are plenty of places to get help. If you don't want the help, then... be an adult and make up your mind. But to be painfully blunt, the FDA has no business putting a salt cap on anything.

Quote from: Novice on March 26, 2008, 04:22:34 PM

Since when does the government care how fast I'm killing myself?

They made suicide illegal a long time ago, which I have serious problems with that too.

If this thing passes I'm going to have to start a black market cheese ring just to spite them.

dcrog · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2008, 05:04:14 PM »

My wife has always suffered from low blood pressure. Please don't tell me I'm going to have to get a prescription for salt.

After she salts her food I don't think anyone else would touch it.

sociald1077 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2008, 05:14:41 PM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 04:59:37 PM

Since when does the government have the right to put a ban on what I put in my body as fuel?

It could be argued that the government benefits more from a healthy population than an unhealthy one.

And once again, the government is not forcing you to stop eating salt, it is placing regulations in to create healthier food. It is not a salt cap for you, it is a salt cap for processed food. This is in the same vein as many states have taken to remove Transfats from processed food from restaurants.

Most people do not have the time/knowledge/heart/space to grow their own food. Slaughtering a cow (on your own) to make useful meat cuts is much more complicated than it sounds.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2008, 05:33:34 PM »

I'm not so sure about that. Sure public health issues the government will care about. The thought being that by limiting salt intake they can lower the liability they pay out in medicare and medicaid. But then again if they encourage it to the point where no one lives past 65, just think of all the savings they'd have in not having to shell out Social Security.

Wunderkind · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2008, 05:34:27 PM »

Quote from: sociald1077 on March 26, 2008, 05:14:41 PM

This is in the same vein as many states have taken to remove Transfats from processed food from restaurants.

Not entirely true.

The restaurants chain themselves are taking transfat out because the FDA required it to be listed on the nutritional values. The chains knew this would hurt them in the long run and were pro-active about going ahead and getting rid of it before customers realized what they were eating, and stopped. This was a fortunate venture for the governments because people are far more likely to notice fat content than salt content.

I haven't actually heard of any state coming foreward and declaring a transfat ban or cap on a restaurant.

On the same mark, many processed food makers have lowered their salt content, or offered reduced sodium options. The problem is, is that most people couldn't care less about the salt content so the brands don't feel as much pressure to cap their own salt as they do to cap their transfat. So, the FDA decides, "Well boys, how about instead of dumping information they obviously don't care about on deaf ears, lets just make the decision for them."

Yes, I have a big problem with it.

Quote from: sociald1077 on March 26, 2008, 05:14:41 PM

Most people do not have the time/knowledge/heart/space to grow their own food.

Exactly!

Most people can't do what I have the opportunity and knowledge to do, which is why I'm shooting my mouth off on this one. I have a beautiful choice. I can run down to old fashion butcher down the street (because we still have one) buy a cheap ham and a bag of curing salt, and make the damn country ham myself, but ONLY because I have the time/knowledge/space to do so. Most people do not! They rely on grocery stores and processing plants to roll out those options in a more convenient time efficient manner. The FDA stepping in and capping salt in processed foods is declaring that a large portion of civilization is incapable of making a reasonable adult decision.

Maybe they are right, maybe a large portion of the population can't. The point is, I'm apalled by the decision to stop educating people and just start making the decisions for them, which is the direction this whole load of manure is headed in. It's the direction it's been headed in for quite some time.

sociald1077 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2008, 06:11:58 PM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 05:34:27 PM

I haven't actually heard of any state coming foreward and declaring a transfat ban or cap on a restaurant.

http://www.metrokc.gov/Health/news/07071901.htm

It wasn't a state wide law, but I know the Washington State congress was considering it, much to the dismay of restaurant owners. MA also was considering a trans fat ban around the same time period. NYC has also ban trans fat. So after a bit of research its not as big as I thought, but its still there.

Back on topic.

*Puts on Devils Advocate hat*

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 05:34:27 PM

The problem is, is that most people couldn't care less about the salt content

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 05:34:27 PM

The point is, I'm apalled by the decision to stop educating people and just start making the decisions for them

If people don't care, and the education is falling on deaf ears, why shouldn't the choice to reduce salt be taken from them? If they find their food lacking, they do have a salt shaker. It does not harm the people.

Wunderkind · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2008, 06:24:17 PM »

Quote from: sociald1077 on March 26, 2008, 06:11:58 PM

http://www.metrokc.gov/Health/news/07071901.htm

It wasn't a state wide law, but I know the Washington State congress was considering it, much to the dismay of restaurant owners. MA also was considering a trans fat ban around the same time period. NYC has also ban trans fat. So after a bit of research its not as big as I thought, but its still there.

I concede the point and stand corrected. I'm still sickened by it.

Quote

If people don't care, and the education is falling on deaf ears, why shouldn't the choice to reduce salt be taken from them? If they find their food lacking, they do have a salt shaker. It does not harm the people.

It doesn't harm them? Are you sure? Are you 100% positive that allowing a large group of ignorant people to remain ignorant doesn't harm them?

If you are then we disagree and neither one of us will ever compromise.

If the government caps the salt in the processed food, people will find the food lacking and reach for the salt shaker, then what good will it do? People will still be consuming the same amount if not more salt than before. If they can't listen to reason, then the laws of nature tell us to stay the hell out of it.

sociald1077 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2008, 06:37:12 PM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 06:24:17 PM

It doesn't harm them? Are you sure? Are you 100% positive that allowing a large group of ignorant people to remain ignorant doesn't harm them?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can educate people, but you can't make them smarter.

This all comes down to people making choices, and no matter what, a person will not make a different choice unless A) something happens to them that personally impacts them, or B) the choice is taken from them.

And I think in that statement I have come to almost an equal state as you on the matter of "why should the government bother?"

Tank you for this debate

.

Wunderkind · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2008, 06:48:52 PM »

Anytime.

EDIT:

All this talk of cheese and salt and ham just made me go make a sandwich. Damn the powers of suggestion!

12AX7 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2008, 07:42:02 PM »

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 04:59:37 PM

I'm one those backwoods country bumpkins who makes half the shit on that list herself anyway.

ok... call me senile, but I totally missed this. Same exact way I missed it on canoftuna. Not that it makes a real difference on my end; I just kinda felt st00pid there momentarily...

Quote from: Wunderkind on March 26, 2008, 04:59:37 PM

They made suicide illegal a long time ago

How fucking stupid, ya know? "Prosecute me now, biatch!!!"

canoftuna · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2008, 09:22:39 PM »

This makes me angry. I know I'm probably reiterating everything just said/argued in this thread, but this is asinine. While I understand they aren't going as far as setting restrictions on what we can and can't eat, I still see it as one step closer to it. Today, they make all processed and fast food/restaurant food meet healthy standards; tomorrow we're not even allowed to make our own decisions on what to eat. Probably a little extreme, but at this rate, who knows what the future holds? I understand this isn't a complete threat to our freedom, so don't misunderstand me and think I'm some overly-liberal loony who incessantly babbles on about our lack of rights. But I don't like my choices being made for me like that, and like I said.. food choices made for us today, other decisions being made for us tomorrow.

Jaepheth · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2008, 08:30:02 PM »

They can have my salt when they distill it from my cold congealed blood!

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2008, 02:47:47 PM »

Pssh, this is easy to solve. Companies that make high-sodium offerings need to have a low-sodium offering that costs much less; the difference kicks in to medical programs and funeral services for the obese. DONE

jeee · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2008, 04:11:17 PM »

The only thing I can add is that I found every American meal served to me too salty. And the rest of my family blames me for eating too much salt.

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Author Topic: Telling me I shouldn't is one thing... (Read 5451 times)

12AX7

12AX7