Hey, seperation is seperation.

You can only solve a problem when all parties agree that the problem is solved.  That is the problem with religion.

Quote from: reimero

The terrible irony of all this is that I'm hard-pressed to find any other issue in human history which has exacted a greater cost in animosity, human life, war, destruction and terror than the issue of faith.  And the vast majority of faiths any more tend to view their god(s) as benevolent.

And here we have the reason for my atheism. Divine plan or no, should I choose to accept the reality of a God, I'd never be able to forgive said power.

Interesting point of view.  Personally, I don't blame my God for the failings of humans.  And I have very, very little regard for humans claiming to be acting in the name of God, because we've demonstrated conclusively that no good can come of it.  I mean, heck, if you read between the lines, most of the 10 Commandments are basically about treating others with dignity and respect.  Is that so hard?

Apparently it is.

All right, I'm back in full-blown rant mode here.

The federal government has, in its infinite wisdom, informed the Catholic Church (and probably others) that parish priests are precluded from endorsing political candidates from the pulpit or other official church-sanctioned events (like parish picnics and whatnot.)  Yet this same government has the right to take over the auditorium/gym on voting days, disrupting the course of normal school operations and allowing voting to take place, even for candidates at odds with Church teaching.

Yes, I went to Catholic school.  Yes, I had to deal with it.  Yes, it was a pain.

It just seems like a double standard, you know?

Faith and religion are tricky things.  See, the thing about faith is that you KNOW you're right, even in the absence of empirical proof.  That's what faith is, by definition.  Put another way, to a person without faith, the very notion of faith flies in the face of logic (whereas to a person with faith, it is the most logical thing there is.)  Faith is the ultimate circular argument.

The hardest thing is that it is impossible to prove the existence of God.  It is equally impossible to disprove the existence of God.  Actually, I think it's easier to prove the existence of a "Prime Mover" (as Aristotle put it) than anything else, but it's still not scientific fact.  All you're left with is faith, or lack thereof.

The terrible irony of all this is that I'm hard-pressed to find any other issue in human history which has exacted a greater cost in animosity, human life, war, destruction and terror than the issue of faith.  And the vast majority of faiths any more tend to view their god(s) as benevolent.

Ooooh!   Oooh!  Love-bombing Demo!  I'm all in favour of that  

I vote for Demo for "Best-looking evil overlord candidate"

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

That sounds a lot different than "The display of words or symbols of religious derivative, or supplications and prayers of the same nature or any other display indicative of religious faith in any public setting is hereby prohibited."

The law, as written, means that the federal government cannot establish Calvinism as the national religion.  There is nothing in there indicating that Utah cannot make Mormon the official religion of Utah.  That said, SCOTUS retroactively (and incorrectly) applied that ruling (in spite of the fact that the explicit wording is "Congress shall make no law...")

The United States bends over backwards pretending to be a religion-neutral country.  In fact, this country is extremely Calvinist in its roots and outlook.  The VAST majority of the Founding Fathers were Calvinist, and it permeates their ideologies and philosophies.  We didn't have a Catholic President until 1961, and we have yet to have a non-Christian President.

You can't remove the historical faith element from government completely.  Or would you remove all military and Congressional chaplains, re-mint every piece of currency, rework the Great Seal (which dates back to 1781), change the national anthem (read the third verse sometime) and most of our other patriotic songs, and eliminate Christmas as a national holiday?

People who want every religious element removed from anything remotely related to government are nothing but self-serving idiots with no sense of national identity or history who are mostly interested in being jackasses.  Frankly, I'd rather the federal government not waste its time and money worrying about this sort of thing (not that they should be spending the time and money figuring out how to work it in, either.)

But I find extreme anti-religious-symbol zeal quite offensive and ignorant.

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And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!!!!

First off, I don't consider the 1950's our "heritage".  

Second, don't these two sentences contradict one another?

1950s?  Hardly.  1950s was when "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, but there have always been Christian underpinings dating back all the way to the 1770s (the Declaration of Independence would be a good start.  The In God We Trust dates back to 1861, according to the U.S. Treasury Department

He was an important president, from a political scientist's standpoint.  He played the political game well, and brought a degree of respect and professionalism to the White House which had been lacking since Nixon.  Some of his methods were unorthodox, yet remarkably effective.

I'm not going to pass judgment on whether he was a "good" or "bad" president, but he WAS an important president.  His will be remembered as one of the U.S.'s key presidencies.

It's also not like you're completely blindsided by the possibility.  I mean, the whole nature of the military is that there's a chance you'll have to put your whole life on hold for an undetermined amount of time.  You claim to enlist for, say, four years, but in fact it's 4 years or until the job is done.  Those who enlist are made aware of this.

Call it unfair, but it's a fact of military life, and if you're not willing to accept that, don't enlist.  Simple as that, really.

I pretty much use Firefox exclusively in Windoze environments (I use Safari on my Mac.)  No problems whatsoever.

Nice smiley