Topic: Spiritual journals of a confused child - Part 3 (Read 2682 times)

Anonymous · « **on:** March 09, 2005, 01:14:33 AM »

http://www.gotthegeek.com/images/judgeavatar.jpg"> Submitted byTheJudge

As I got older, I lost interest in my religion, but not in God or in certain principles of the Catholic religion. I just didn’t feel like I belonged when I looked at the “organized” religion as a whole. As I grew older, I started to question a lot of things I had been told when I was younger. My objective was never to defy, it was to look at the big picture from a different angle and make up my own mind about things. It was to challenge what I had been told in order to confirm it or to deny it. I’ve made many observations and drawn various conclusions on a variety of religion aspects. The funny thing is that the conclusions I made seem to change over time as I was gaining more life experience.

I don’t believe in blind faith. I believe in faith, but I think that what ever you have faith in has to be questioned regularly. It’s a good exercise and it may lead you to reposition yourself one specific issues. In that sense, your beliefs have the potential to change over time so really, one could say that absolute faith is non existent if you are willing to challenge it. When I was raised, I was taught various things about religion. I was told that one thing was bad while another wasn’t, generally speaking. But never was I given the opportunity to make up my own mind on the matter. Parents who have beliefs try to transfer those beliefs to their children. It’s only normal. When I have kids, I’ll probably do the same thing without realizing it. By definition, a belief is something absolute. There is no need to question it. It is what it is. Naturally, when you tell your child that green is green, you won’t stop and ponder to see if green really is green or if it is perhaps blue. But when you grow up, there’s a point in your life where you do ask yourself that question. When you go through that process, you may draw different conclusions that the ones your parents drew (Parents or whoever else transferred some of their beliefs to you). This concept applies to any belief, not just religious beliefs.

In terms of religious beliefs, let’s all be honest with each other: The truth is that none of us were there 2000 years ago when the Christ apparently decided to pay us a visit. I choose the word “apparently”, because it is not something I can confirm with certainty. Having said that, you have to take a position on the matter, irregardless of having first hand accounts of events. Unfortunately, the debate often comes down to being a believer or being a non believer. I find that sad because my position on the whole Jesus thing is kind of in between. I’ve pondered on the religion issue for a long time. (for many years) And it is likely that I will ponder the question all of my life. But I would like to share some of the conclusions I’ve made so far about religion as a whole.

The first thing is to keep an open mind. I remember hearing about the terrible Jehovah’s witnesses who would knock at your door one Sunday morning and try to convert you to their team. I can recall many jokes about that religion in particular. After hearing some negatives all my life towards that group, it was only natural that I had a negative attitude towards them. But when I matured and gave some thought about my attitude, it occurred to me that I had never even met a Jehovah’s Witness. How could I feel so strongly about a group that I knew nothing about? It just didn’t make sense. So I decided to give them the opportunity to explain their beliefs. I would let them speak for themselves instead of listening to everyone else speak on their behalf, if they ever knocked at my door that is. Well, they did knock at my door once. I was in University back then. It was at a time when I was obsessed with the stock market. Ironic isn’t it? A student with nothing to his name was fascinated about investments! Anyway, there were two nice and polite ladies who came at my door and I decided to let them in and have a little chat with them. I was curious. It’s not that I wanted to join their club, I just wanted to get a better understanding of their practices. It was interesting because this particular pair were ex-Catholics so I was really curious as to what made them switch camps. They explained to me that they’ve read the bible and there was a specific passage in there that said something like “You will only worship me and no other” (as if these were the words of God). They said that the catholic religion had symbols and practices that went against this wish from God. They said that our camp worshiped Marie (which is true, we have statues and prayers just for her). They felt that it was wrong. They explained that part of their beliefs required that they go knock on doors every Sunday because they wanted to “save” the rest of us ignorant fools. It’s not the words they choose, but that’s what it essentially what it came down to. I didn’t like that. One of the things I didn’t feel comfortable with in the Catholic religion is how they imposed certain beliefs that, in my mind, were often contradictory to the principles of the religion. And frankly, I just didn’t like being told “that’s how things are” without a sound explanation. These people spoke as if they had crossed over to the other side, had a little chat with God, and came back share their observations with everyone else. So I started to question them. I asked them simple questions that would force them to think about things, or at least force them to pitch the sale in a way that made sense. I first told them that their whole beliefs were based on some very specific passages of the bible, at least according to what they had told me earlier. I then told them that the bible was originally written in Hebrew and that it was rewritten/translated/reinterpreted many times over the last 2000 years. What if someone had made an error along the way? What if the interpretation was wrong? How could they justify spending a life time of preaching something that could potentially be completely false?

They were puzzled at first. I think they were used to getting doors slammed to their faces and this was something new! But then, they made a critical error. They answered me by quoting other passages of the bible. Obviously, they were missing the point I was trying to make, or didn’t want to discuss the issue. To me, that was a display of total ignorance, therefore I had lost interest talking to them. They didn’t make the sale after all.

I’ve had a few tiny experiences where I had the opportunity to look into other religions than my own. I recall an event where the father of a close coworker of mine passed away and I attended the funeral. They were Baptist. To be honest, I’m not sure exactly what the Baptist believes in. I know it’s very close to the beliefs of the Catholics. But I just don’t know what differentiates the two in terms of beliefs. However, I bring this experience up to illustrate another point. Factors that determine your comfort in a religion can go beyond the beliefs themselves. The way the beliefs are exercised can have a huge impact. Let me explain: When I attended this funeral, I saw things in the ceremony that I will never see in a Catholic church. At some point, the priest said “And now I would like to invite my wife to sing a song”. OK, so the guy was married. That was different and it’s something that I liked. I understand the sacrifice that catholic priests make. This commitment to God is very significant, but is it necessary? We all grasp the principle, but in the end, would there be anything fundamentally wrong with a catholic priest getting married? Wouldn’t their quality of life be better if they could love and be loved? One of the fundamental principles of the Catholic religion is to love others. Why can’t the priest passionately love a woman? Or a man for that matter! I just don’t understand the reason for the sacrifice. When you love someone, and they love you back, it isn’t necessary to prove yourself to them. They know you love them because you have the liberty to show your love in so many different ways. Why can’t Catholic priest have the same right? God knows he is loved by them. I doubt he requires proof. After all, he did tell us to believe without seeing. See what I mean by contradictions in the application of the religion?

To continue on with my funeral example, the priest (or father, or what ever they are called), grabbed his guitar and started playing while his wife sang. That is also something I’ve never seen a Catholic priest do. I’ve been at in church weeding where you had a guitar player, a drummer and a guy playing the base! What is wrong with that? Music gives feeling to a ceremony. I just find that the catholic ceremonies are so drama. You’ve got the pipe organ and the choir, whose laments resonate within the church’s halls. It’s just depressing!

The final thing I’ll talk about in regards to this funeral is how I felt when I left. The priest of the Baptist church had spoken about my friend’s father and he was truly comforting. This is going to sound strange, but you almost felt good when you left the building. You felt some relief. I’ve been to many Catholic funerals and it’s usually the opposite. It’s more drama, and it’s more depressing. You just want to break down in tears. I’m not sure exactly what it was, but there was something about the Baptist church that I really liked that day. Maybe it was the informality. After all, the priest wasn’t wearing any robes. He was just some guy with a regular suit. You felt like he was an equal. He just blended in with everyone else. There was that, and also the words he choose to speak, and most importantly, who he was directing them too. Maybe it just happened that this guy in particular was really good at what he did, but for a while I said to myself “self, I could see myself in this community”. It was strange… That day, I felt some kind of comfort that I had never really felt in my religion. Yet I was amongst strangers.

It’s late. I’ll continue this later.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2005, 10:02:59 AM »

I've had similar experiences with Jehova's Witnesses. They used to come to my house pretty regularly, and I'd basically tell them I wasn't interested and close the door.

But they always came back. Not always the same ones, but someone always would.

I've always had a pretty solid interest in religion, even though I've never been a believer myself. So I finally decided to see what the heck they were bothering me about.

I invited a pair of them in the next time they stopped by and knocked. I told them that I was curious about their organization and wanted to learn more, but I was unprepared to discuss anything with them above the basics, so I required more information and some time to go over it.

To my surprise, they handed me a copy of the Jehova's Witness Bible, and a couple other books and said they could come back next week.

I spent that week going over their Bible and comparing it to several other Bibles of my own, taking copious notes, and going over their other literature.

When they came back, I was prepared.

They attacked my position immediately as soon as we began our discussion. They saw it as their duty to inform everyone they could how wrong everyone else was, and how right they were.

I took that as an invitation to do likewise. After all, I had nothing really to defend as an atheist; they were the ones making the claims.

I started with their Bible, and like you, Judge, I encountered the classic response from Jehova's Witnesses not used to arguing with anyone even remotely prepared: They countered by spouting off more stuff from the Bible.

I had marked several dozen passages in their Bible and in several of my own and compared translations, even going back to Hebrew in a number of cases to demonstrate how each Bible had a slightly different slant on many things, in some cases changing the meaning or bent dramatically. I then began picking at them with logic in ways I'm sure you're familiar with, Judge.

They were pretty taken aback at my attacks, but I kept things very quiet and civil, and made sure they realized that this discussion was not intended to be insulting... in fact, it was really no more insulting than what they did every time they knocked on a stranger's door and so boldly accused people of being wrong about their belief systems.

I proceeded to tear down the main precepts of the JW faith one by one, backing my points up with their own translation of the Bible and with irrefutable logic.

When I was finished, they looked pretty upset, but I had to admire their restraint. I had forced them into corners and got them to admit uncertainty about a good number of things that they were very firm on when we began, and I had attacked them incessantly at the heart of what they clearly held dear in their faith.

In short, I made them feel like they make others feel when they so callously and smugly knock on doors and accuse people of being wrong on a very personal level without so much as an invitation.

One of the two I am sure I rattled pretty strongly, but probably not too deeply. The other one, though, I think I may have gotten to on some level. I like to think that by questioning their faith I made them see just a glimmer of a larger world, but there's no way to really tell that.

No Jehova's Witness ever came to my house again while I lived there.

Anonymous · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2005, 05:04:30 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

I then began picking at them with logic in ways I'm sure you're familiar with, Judge.

Hehe! I would have loved to see that! How long did they stay?

Demosthenes · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2005, 10:12:04 AM »

A couple of hours, if I recall correctly. They were very patient, even though it was clearly unsettling to them.

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Author Topic: Spiritual journals of a confused child - Part 3 (Read 2682 times)

Anonymous

Spiritual journals of a confused child - Part 3

Demosthenes

Spiritual journals of a confused child - Part 3

Anonymous

Spiritual journals of a confused child - Part 3

Demosthenes

Spiritual journals of a confused child - Part 3