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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[TeraHammer]

Can somebody tell me why America isnt willing to help much with the rest of the world in anti climate changing measures?

The richest but most polluting country in the world...

[Vespertine]

TeraHammer, that is an excellent question.  Personally, I think there are many reasons.  I think that one of the reasons is that many many Americans go through life with a sense of entitlement.  They feel like they are entitled to do anything they want, the rest of the world be damned.  This absolutely extends to their cars.  To a lot of people, their cars are an extension of their personality, and definitely a status symbol.  And these people seem to think that giving up their cars and taking public transportation is completely beneath them.

Something else that I've noticed is that many parts of the country have horrible mass transit systems.  I live in Phoenix, and I can attest to the fact that our public transportation system sucks major ass.  Phoenix is (I think) the fifth or seventh largest city in America.  If you look at the physical layout of the city, it's very spread out; it's huge.  We have buses.  That's it.

The other thing that I think is very important to note is that a large number of Americans are concerned about the damage being done to the environment.  These are people who recycle, carpool or drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars.  Unfortunately, even though there are a lot of them out there, you don't ever hear about these people.

[Crystalmonkey]

Many people seem to vote with checkbook in mind, and even then people are fools. Ever read "What's Wrong With Kansas?"

[xolik]

Gee, another anti-American thread by TeraHammer. I'm shocked.

lol amerikkka is dum laffo

[Crystalmonkey]

Gee, another anti-American thread by TeraHammer. I'm shocked.

lol amerikkka is dum laffo

The world is kind of messed up, America certainly has it's problems too.

[GenStyx]

One influence to this would be America's history of isolationism.  We like to think that we are individuals. We like to think that we are relatively isolated, regardless that we like to seep into everyone else's culture and economies.

I feel that our attitude in this regard is detrimental to our foreign relations. We don't have the benefit like that of the Netherlands where we have close boarders to so many countries.  Yes, we are the 'melting pot' so to say, but many of the people who come here begin to assimilate to the "American Way," especially after a generation living here, whereas I think families remaining within the European Union would hold onto their culture longer and no just long-standing traditions.

Also, most Americans know jack about other countries.  I feel that our media does little to raise awareness...mostly focusing on lame special interest stories or trying to convince us that our government isn't fucking up entirely...but don't get me started on our media.
When you are in Europe though, you get something as simple as weather reports from all over, including Ethiopia and such. Coming from Michigan, I was at least exposed to some Canadian channels, but that is about it. Thankfully I've been blessed with parents that have a flavor for travel and don't think that everything ends with America.

[MISTER MASSACRE]

How come people keep using "America" and "the American government" interchangeably?
     

[Crystalmonkey]

How come people keep using "America" and "the American government" interchangeably?
     

Because Mexico and Canada don't starts wars as often?  

[jeee]

How come people keep using "America" and "the American government" interchangeably?
     

Because America chooses the American Goverment ?

[BizB]

Can somebody tell me why America isnt willing to help much with the rest of the world in anti climate changing measures?

The richest but most polluting country in the world...

You need to do a lot more research, my friend.  You have more misinformation in that 2 line post than I can even begin to argue against.

[reimero]

If you're referring to the Kyoto Treaty thingamabob, the US government isn't playing ball because the treaty is patently unfair.  Basically, it amounts to "let's impose a bunch of environmental restrictions on the US, but grant exemptions to a whole bunch of other countries who pollute almost as much."

It's not that the United States doesn't care about the environment, it's that the treaty itself is in no way fair.  Either everyone plays by the same rules or the treaty gets ignored.

[jeee]

Doing a little research in this matter I decided that I will stay out of the discussion, but I did stumble upon the fact that Turkey exports for an amount of $237 in mushrooms to the USA yearly.

[jeee]

If you're referring to the Kyoto Treaty thingamabob, the US government isn't playing ball because the treaty is patently unfair.  Basically, it amounts to "let's impose a bunch of environmental restrictions on the US, but grant exemptions to a whole bunch of other countries who pollute almost as much."

It's not that the United States doesn't care about the environment, it's that the treaty itself is in no way fair.  Either everyone plays by the same rules or the treaty gets ignored.

That's not true, a cut in emissions of carbon dioxide would lead to a cut in the energy usage within the USA and that will cause a higher unemployment rate. Therefor the USA is not signing. The rules of the Kyoto treaty are the same for everyone who ratifies it. The percentage of the cut in carbon dioxide emission is different. Certain Countries comitted to a different percentage.

[ivan]

Can somebody tell me why America isnt willing to help much with the rest of the world in anti climate changing measures?

Because we hate you.

[BizB]

doubly so in winter time

[MISTER MASSACRE]

Because America chooses the American Goverment ?

Only to a point: closed doors shenanigans are both beyond the control and, in many cases, understanding of the electorate.

...although re-electing the current group of chuckleheads was certainly an interesting move.
 

[Min]

I didn't do it.

[TerrorDronze]

After reading the thread, and giving it much thought, i have chosen to blame Canada, cheez whiz, dubya's middle toe on his right foot.....










and detta.

but even beyond all this, has it occurred to anybody that Bush, having come from oil money, and big oil, having a rather large "investment" in the house and senate, wouldn't want to do something that might, oh, cause us to burn less of the stuff?  While I in no way defend what's going on with the whole We-don't-wanna-sign-because-we-have-to-give-something-up thing, i can see the reasoning behind it, twisted and greedy as it may be.

[ivan]

Until today, there was always the remote chance that TerraHammer would be put in the same cell with Tookie.

Until today.

[TeraHammer]

To a lot of people, their cars are an extension of their personality, and definitely a status symbol.  And these people seem to think that giving up their cars and taking public transportation is completely beneath them.

Thats a shame really

The other thing that I think is very important to note is that a large number of Americans are concerned about the damage being done to the environment.  These are people who recycle, carpool or drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars.  Unfortunately, even though there are a lot of them out there, you don't ever hear about these people.

Its a pity but why don't we ever hear about these people then?

Can somebody tell me why America isnt willing to help much with the rest of the world in anti climate changing measures?

The richest but most polluting country in the world...

You need to do a lot more research, my friend.  You have more misinformation in that 2 line post than I can even begin to argue against.

Fact: America isnt willing to help much (Kyoto, latest top no real changes, but do keep talking), in contrary to every other country in the world (except Russia then).
Fact: America is the richest country.
America is the most polluting country; Ok you're right, America is not the most polluted country (http://www.aneki.com/polluted.html). However, the amount of people living in the USA is much bigger than in these tiny oil states.

[ivan]

To a lot of people, their cars are an extension of their personality, and definitely a status symbol.  And these people seem to think that giving up their cars and taking public transportation is completely beneath them.

Thats a shame really

And how is that worse than the insufferable snobbery of the Prius-driving elite? Or the insufferable and ignorant snobbery of eurotrash pseudo-environmentalists?

The other thing that I think is very important to note is that a large number of Americans are concerned about the damage being done to the environment.  These are people who recycle, carpool or drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars.  Unfortunately, even though there are a lot of them out there, you don't ever hear about these people.

Its a pity but why don't we ever hear about these people then?

So... Now that you know we exist, are you willing to retract your statements about Americans?

I thought not.

The real problem here is that you all feel helpless and desparate in your personal lives, and so look beyond your own borders for a scapegoat. Let's address the ever-deepening socio-economic divide in your and other European nations. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own?

[TeraHammer]

To a lot of people, their cars are an extension of their personality, and definitely a status symbol.  And these people seem to think that giving up their cars and taking public transportation is completely beneath them.

Thats a shame really

And how is that worse than the insufferable snobbery of the Prius-driving elite? Or the insufferable and ignorant snobbery of eurotrash pseudo-environmentalists?

Go on, tackle me with tough words, ivan the insufferable. Fancy up your words if these words are nothing more than assumptions in thin air. Well, shouldnt be suprising to read from someone who's contribution to this topic has been  nothing more than spam and flamings.

The other thing that I think is very important to note is that a large number of Americans are concerned about the damage being done to the environment.  These are people who recycle, carpool or drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars.  Unfortunately, even though there are a lot of them out there, you don't ever hear about these people.

Its a pity but why don't we ever hear about these people then?

So... Now that you know we exist, are you willing to retract your statements about Americans?

I thought not.

The real problem here is that you all feel helpless and desparate in your personal lives, and so look beyond your own borders for a scapegoat. Let's address the ever-deepening socio-economic divide in your and other European nations. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own?

I am very willing retract my statements if only these pro environment people really showed any effect in national anti pollution measures.

Sure, lets adress the 'ever deepening' socio-economic divide in The Netherlands. Well? What was it that you were going to say?

And finally Ivan, about the log and the speck, you have to clean up your glasses so you can see the true magnitude of problems.

[BizB]

Fact: America isnt willing to help much (Kyoto, latest top no real changes, but do keep talking), in contrary to every other country in the world (except Russia then).

You haven't even proven that man is capable of affecting the climate.  If you can prove that, then we can start talking.

Fact: America is the richest country.

Fact: The USA is the THIRD richest nation.  http://www.aneki.com/richest.html

America is the most polluting country; Ok you're right, America is not the most polluted country (http://www.aneki.com/polluted.html). However, the amount of people living in the USA is much bigger than in these tiny oil states.

What about China?  That entire nation is exempt from the very Kyoto-treaty you so long for the US to sign.  Surely they don't pollute.

So, let's restate your originaly comment/question, shall we?

Can somebody tell me why America won't sign a treaty that will only serve to negatively affect the US economy and will have no proven effect on the climate?

The third richest and seventh most polluting country in the world...

There... now I'll answer.

Because it would serve no purpose.

[jeee]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2001/08/14/warming.pdf

For those who are interested, a 2 page pdf that explains Kyoto.

Terahammer, as you noticed the folks overhere enjoy a good discussion based on facts and opinions. I doubt however that you will get anything done here with your harse statements and agressive form of debate. You're a disgrace to the Netherlands when it comes to geekforum.org and because of folks like you the stereotype of "the Dutchman  always has to be right" has once again been confirmed.

[dur-ril]

 If you can prove that, then we can start talking.

that's just plain ignorance, i wish i could explain it to you but my english is not good enough, actually i'd even have to check some words in my own language and that would take up too much time

I hope somone else explains it all to you cause i don't want to spend time and effort in doing it my self. I am not as optimistic as others, i don't think stubborness can be defeated.