Topic: john kerry's statement (Read 20681 times)

trekchick · « **on:** November 01, 2006, 04:00:32 PM »

surprised no one has started this topic yet.

"you study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well, if you dont, you get stuck in iraq"

how does everyone feel about this, especially since i have realized we have some hardcore liberals in here i would like to know their opinions

also, do you think that they might lose some votes for congress, since polls were suggesting democrats will take majority?

discuss

Julep · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:18:58 PM »

It was just a butchered joke. Or maybe a Fruedian slip. But either way I don't think anyone in politics would say something like that in public on purpose.

BizB · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:23:30 PM »

I'm about as conservative as one can get here...

Mr. Kerry should appologize for offending people - even if he did botch a joke. The fact of the matter is that what he said came across as insulting to military members even if there is an element of truth in what he said.I'm about as conservative as one can get here. I'm so conservative that I think Rush leans too far left sometimes - and he's a douchebag.

Mr. Kerry should apologize for offending people - even if he did botch a joke. The fact of the matter is that what he said came across as insulting to military members even if there is an element of truth in what he said. I don't think, however, that this stupidity will have any affect on the elections. (For the love of $deity, I can't wait until Wednesday)

Julep, I think you're wrong. I think he said exactly what he wanted to say. He just didn't realize how harsh it would sound.

The best thing that could happen would be a divided house. Give the Senate to the D's and let the R's retain the congress. Handicap them all! Let nothing get done! Mwahahahaha!

*cough*

Kerry should get that footinmouth looked at. It has cost him a lot already.

trekchick · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:34:53 PM »

i mostly agree Bizb, i think their might have been a fw things i dont agree with, but close.

i think he said exactly what he wanted to say, and i agree he needs to apoligise, even if he didnt mean it to be taken offence to, its anything but rude.

and i love how its "bush's admin. that are taken it way to seriously, and knew exactly what he ment" bull. it made me mad, and last i checked, i wsnt on his admin. though that would be pretty cool.

basically, i just didnt like kerry to begin with, and with this, it doesnt help.

i think that the statment might effect voting a bit, not majorly but im sure a bit. I mean, i know there arent many military liberals, but the few that are i think will reconsider their votes, and even people not in the military, im sure that statement will end up swaying some votes.

and about the whole "botched joke" thing, i dont think ANYONE got the "funny" part of it.

but as watching the news today, it seem like even if you are a kerry fan (sorry, i guess not all of us can be right l>) i think everyone or mostly everyone agrees he needs to get some humility, and at least apologise for it, whether you dont see the crappy, odd sence of humor or you do

jeee · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:43:12 PM »

well if that is his opinion he is entitled to it and as already mentioned there is a bit of truth in the statement itself. Politically it is of course very stupid.

BizB · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:44:34 PM »

If he didn't mean it to speak of the troops, then the joke would have read something like this...

"You study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you become president of the United States."

Now, that's funny, but it doesn't make his point. He was trying to tell the kids to study hard and make something of themselves. Plus, President Bush's GPA at Harvard was better than Kerry's. So, if he wanted to make the joke, it would have been better to say....

"You study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you lose to the worst president we've had in a century and thousands of people die in Iraq."
Or...
"You study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you're up here making jokes about a president that you don't like."

jeee... if he meant it as it came across (perception is reality), then he should stand up and point out the facts that lead him to state such things.

jeee · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:49:08 PM »

I don't think that would be hard, you already mentioned yourself that there lies a truth in the statement. Allthough the general opinion in the US is turning against the war, statements like this one hit a sensitive spot. If he doesn't apologize for it he will be of the political stage forever.

trekchick · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:56:52 PM »

you are entitled to your own opinion, but, if your a polititian, it isnt exactly the smartest thing to say.

and seriously, whats wrong with apoligizing

dang it, and i have forgotten how to put pics up on this. but i have one for you guys. its my default on myspace just look at it

myspace.com/irishmofia

ivan · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2006, 05:28:39 PM »

Karl Rove is high-fiving everyone in sight.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:02:23 PM »

Kerry is an asshat. Most of the currently in-office Democrats are asshats too. Most of those Democrats who aren't currently in-office but are running for such positions are also asshats.

Did he botch a joke or just express a rather poorly thought out opinion? I don't know and frankly don't care. I'm pretty critical of the criminals currently in the White House, but I'm also glad Kerry didn't get elected president.

I also would like to point out that this isn't going to make John Kerry a washup, politically.

He's been washed up politically for two years, he just hasn't realized it yet.

BizB · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:07:08 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on November 01, 2006, 06:02:23 PM

He's been washed up politically for two years, he just hasn't realized it yet.

|> Yeah. It's not likely that he'll get elected in his state again. I mean, look how quickly they ditched Ted after the whole murder thing. He's done for sure.<|

Demosthenes · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:09:49 PM »

I didn't mean it like that. Plenty of asshat politicians continue to win re-election after being washed up. It just means they're no longer relevent outside of that.

Besides, with the deck stacked so heavily in favour of incumbents in most states, being washed up politically isn't enough to lose your job. You basically just have to go through the motions in most cases and you can keep getting re-elected. You pretty much have to pull a Mark Foley to break that cycle.

BizB · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:10:38 PM »

True that. True that.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2006, 07:55:05 PM »

Not only is he an asshat, his american dream crap is absurd. Kerry, Bush, most dems and repubs, have never had to really work for anything. They've been born into money, get into Ivy league schools with their grade inflation, and have the connections so that they can have all the power they want. Plenty of intelligent people end up in Iraq not because they're unintelligent, but because they're lower SES and can't get another job, or get into school, because all the legacies take up the slots (especially in Ivy league schools). The social ladder is missing rungs to protect the elite. We see this in politics, education, the job market, society in general. When was the last time you were invited to a country club?

We live in a plutocracy, and a vast majority of the politicians on the national level are vile, bribe-taking, quid pro quo, lazy assed, unethical, lower than pond scum, waste of biological matter.

hackess · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2006, 09:30:41 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on November 01, 2006, 06:09:49 PM

You pretty much have to pull a Mark Foley to break that cycle.

I can't be the only one who found that funny.

Leonidas · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2006, 09:32:14 PM »

Quote from: trekchick on November 01, 2006, 04:00:32 PM

surprised no one has started this topic yet.

"you study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well, if you dont, you get stuck in iraq"

how does everyone feel about this, especially since i have realized we have some hardcore liberals in here i would like to know their opinions

also, do you think that they might lose some votes for congress, since polls were suggesting democrats will take majority?

discuss

Kerry's statement is everything I've come to expect from a washed-up Capitol Hill resident. Ever since he lost to arguably one of the worst presidents of recent memory, I had expected him to leave quietly, but I suppose that's too much to ask in the midst of an election.

Whose side is he playing for, anyway? If the Democrats just keep quiet and recite their talking points ad infinitum, they shouldn't have much trouble regaining a majority in the Senate, seeing as a growing number (possibly now a shrinking number) of voters are dissatisfied with the Republican Party. What's this idiot doing deviating from the game plan?

I want to see the Democrats at least get enough seats to cause gridlock. Having the government unable to do much of anything is infinitely better than the agendas either party is trying to push.

Evonus · « **Reply #16 on:** November 01, 2006, 10:06:43 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus on November 01, 2006, 07:55:05 PM

Not only is he an asshat, his american dream crap is absurd. Kerry, Bush, most dems and repubs, have never had to really work for anything. They've been born into money, get into Ivy league schools with their grade inflation, and have the connections so that they can have all the power they want. Plenty of intelligent people end up in Iraq not because they're unintelligent, but because they're lower SES and can't get another job, or get into school, because all the legacies take up the slots (especially in Ivy league schools). The social ladder is missing rungs to protect the elite. We see this in politics, education, the job market, society in general. When was the last time you were invited to a country club?

We live in a plutocracy, and a vast majority of the politicians on the national level are vile, bribe-taking, quid pro quo, lazy assed, unethical, lower than pond scum, waste of biological matter.

Oh boy, do I know this one first hand, and I mean, I'm not even going for millionaire status here, but to even become a reasonably paid professional if your parents weren't is near impossible, just because of the fact that you never have the right connections, you don't have the resources available that other groups do, and college is ridiculously expensive.

But on to the topic at hand. I personally, don't agree with anything relating to it. He's an asshole for refusing to apologize for his bad phrasing, and I honestly don't think he's correct on any level. There isn't a draft going. This isn't Vietnam where all the poor kids get rounded up and shipped off. No one forces you to join the armed forces, it's a choice that you make. There are plenty of nonmilitary routes to follow for those not bound for college.

Big Orange Cat · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2006, 04:55:08 AM »

I think Kerry's an asshat too (along with most of our politicians), but I can't get away from how so many people say "there's a grain of truth to it." Remember when Bill Maher made the similar comment about "low-lying fruit"? Everyone was outraged, he lost his job, and yet because 9/11 was still fresh on our minds, we couldn't have a dialogue about what he said. Same thing here.

The real war within our borders is the issue of class. Race continues to be used as the red herring to keep the middle and working classes distracted from the real fact of the matter: that the haves have more than ever, and the have-nots have even less. That fact runs across all racial and cultural spectrums. Oh, sure, the working class can now buy cell phones and Starbucks coffee, but it's a false sense of prosperity, in part because most of it is being paid for with credit cards that will never get paid back.

Quote

No one forces you to join the armed forces, it's a choice that you make. There are plenty of nonmilitary routes to follow for those not bound for college.

That's an extremely myopic view to take. I live in a small town where generations of families have farmed, logged, fished and mined. They don't leave unless there's a war to go to. The only "respectable" way to get out is to join the military. It's not at all easy to find the routes you speak of when you have no encouragement from your family or friends; even your school doesn't offer the tools you need, i.e. providing an education that can prepare you for college. The pressure to conform to tradition here is enormous.

Certainly there are intelligent, college educated people who join the military. But by far the majority of people who enlist do so because they have no real economic alternatives, or at least the perception of such. Like the 20-year-old kid from our town who died in Iraq a couple of years ago. Talking to his sister, his story is the perfect example of this: his parents spend the majority of their free time at the tavern; he had no encouragement from them to take his studies seriously or pursue college. The military recruiters are so convincing when they came to visit the school; they had grand stories of seeing the world and getting money for college that he didn't have to pay back -- all he had to do was spend a little time "serving" his country, and what a noble thing that is.

TheJudge · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2006, 07:51:03 AM »

I'm confused. This guy makes a statement like that after he bored us to death for a whole year with his heroic epics in Vietnam?

It was likely a lame "Bush slap" attempt that backfired. Let's face it, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed when it's time to play politics. Like someone previously pointed out, he lost the elections to one of the worse Presidents ever. Because of his background, I'm not even sure he would beleive his own statement. Regardless, of what he personally beleives, the statement itself was clearly offensive but since we live in a free speech society, he can say what ever the hell he wants. Of course, there may be repercussions to what one says. However, history has shown that when it comes to politics, people have a short memory. This won't even be a topic of interest in a month.

milifist · « **Reply #19 on:** November 02, 2006, 08:05:18 AM »

This incident will probably work out real well for the Democrats. Since midterms are all about base turn out, it won’t really hurt Democratic candidates. They now have the perfect scapegoat if they don’t perform as well as they have been projecting. And there is the added benefit of effectively eliminating Kerry as a 2008 potential. Few, if any, Democrats want to give him a second chance.

If I wasn’t so pessimistic about the overall intelligence of the Democratic leadership, I’d think they planed this little “botched joke”.

And for the record, only some people think Bush is a bad President, let alone one of the worst ever.

12AX7 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:27:51 AM »

Quote from: jeee on November 01, 2006, 04:49:08 PM

that there lies a truth in the statement.

As a matter of fact, the average service person is MORE intelligent and educated than the average citizen. Where do you find that there's "truth" in his statement?
I'll give you a couple of examples right off the bat; and it's so common, that you already KNOW these people:

Demo - Navy - NUCLEAR ENGINEER (or something such as that; not sure the exact MOS name)
12ax7 - Army - Telecommunications Engineer <--now; in my civillian job; which I landed thanks to my Military training. Yes; over $55K a year.
BizB - Not sure but I believe he was Army; but he's now a programmer. |>Yeh; thats a "dumb person's job" |>
Rico - Army - Not sure what his civillian job is; but you know him as well as I; and I would hardly say he's "uneducated".

I could go on, but I would urge you to check out the actual process (ASVAB for one; GED or diploma, as another) and requirements for persons enlisting in the US Military. It MAY have been the less educated waaaaay back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's, but now; if you're a dumbass, you aint getting in.

milifist · « **Reply #21 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:38:47 AM »

If I remember correctly, BizB was Air Force.

I've known a lot of people who served, and not one of them did it because they couldn't afford college, or didn't get good enough grades, or couldn't find a decent job. All but one, joined because they wanted to serve.

jeee · « **Reply #22 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:48:08 AM »

All aside being in the army today is advertised in the US as a boyscout trip. A lot of high school drop outs sign in because it looks so promising. The statement itself of course grieving. It's also an assault on ones who have served in the past.

milifist · « **Reply #23 on:** November 02, 2006, 11:50:27 AM »

Quote from: jeee on November 02, 2006, 10:48:08 AM

A lot of high school drop outs sign in because it looks so promising.

Not really, very few high school drop outs enlist.

Check out: Levels of Education 2004 (2004 is the most recent report I could find)

BizB · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2006, 12:32:16 PM »

Quote from: 12AX7 on November 02, 2006, 09:27:51 AM

As a matter of fact, the average service person is MORE intelligent and educated than the average citizen. Where do you find that there's "truth" in his statement?
I'll give you a couple of examples right off the bat; and it's so common, that you already KNOW these people:

Demo - Navy - NUCLEAR ENGINEER (or something such as that; not sure the exact MOS name)
12ax7 - Army - Telecommunications Engineer <--now; in my civillian job; which I landed thanks to my Military training. Yes; over $55K a year.
BizB - Not sure but I believe he was Army; but he's now a programmer. |>Yeh; thats a "dumb person's job" |>
Rico - Army - Not sure what his civillian job is; but you know him as well as I; and I would hardly say he's "uneducated".

I could go on, but I would urge you to check out the actual process (ASVAB for one; GED or diploma, as another) and requirements for persons enlisting in the US Military. It MAY have been the less educated waaaaay back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's, but now; if you're a dumbass, you aint getting in.

If only I still had my personnel folder. I could post some of the write-ups that I received during my stay in the Air Farce. My definition of the military is "The unwilling led by the incompetent."

One of my write-ups went something like this:
Air man BizB miss his CDC test becuse he not has his book. Air man BizB took his book in officer over the week end for to study. He left his book in the officer and no key to get it out when he was gone.

What it should have said was:
Airman BizB was unable to take his correspondence course examination today because he didn't have his book. He had taken his book into the office to study over the weekend and it became locked in said office while he was on an errand. Airman BizB was unable to retrieve the book because the only key to the office was (and still is) missing.

It was written by a Tech Sergeant (E6). He saw nothing wrong with the write-up when I refused to sign it.

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Author Topic: john kerry's statement (Read 20681 times)

12AX7