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[Bogdaneqd]

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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[Vespertine]

You spent time in the Navy.  I'm sitting here watching The Hunt for Red October.  I don't want a dissertation on whether or not it's accurate.    What I want to know is, does the Navy administer psychological tests before they put a person on a sub?  I'm assuming they do...what kinds of tests?

[Demosthenes]

Not before putting a person on a sub.

And not directly.  There's a "default" psychological evaluation of anybody whose job requires them to have a security clearance, and being assigned to a submarine requires a security clearance.

And I don't know the specifics, or how, or when such evaluations are performed.  I was not aware of it when I got my first security clearance, but it's in my service medical record has having taken place while I was still in Nuclear Power School.

So it must be an observational thing.  I never sat down in front of a shrink and answered any questions or took any kind of written personality test or anything.  But there it is, in my service record.  So someone was paying attention. 

[Demosthenes]

That said, it obviously can't be that great an evaluation.

I mean, I passed it, apparently...

[Vespertine]

Weird.  I would've thought that there would be a screening process.  I mean, it seems to me like the last place you want to have someone freaking the fuck out is in a metal container 20,000 leagues under the sea.

[Demosthenes]

Well, that's what I'm saying... there is a screening process.  It's just not a direct one.

[Vespertine]

Well, yeah, I got that part.  What I meant was a specific screening process to check for things like claustrophobia, or paranoia or some such thing.  You know, to make sure that when the hatch closes I don't completely take leave of my senses.

[Demosthenes]

Believe me, nobody with claustrophobia would volunteer for submarine service.

[12AX7]

 Don't ya love how freaking HUGE submarine interiors look in movies? Even when they do a scene trying to convey how cramped it is; it looks BIG compared to IRL.

[pbsaurus]

But if someone does freak out and the sub is lost, it just means more federal dollars to the military industrial complex to replace it.  Plus the media will have something to talk about.  Looks like win-win from the powers that be perspective.

[Demosthenes]

I dunno.  As an overall, the screening process must work pretty well.  The US Navy has lost a grand total of two nuclear submarines in its history (this one and this one).

One was due to a design/engineering failure

One was almost certainly due to an exchange with a Soviet sub (which was also lost)


While the occasional nutjob can slip through the net, I'd say that's pretty rare.  I can't speak for everyone, but most of the sailors with whom I served -- both surface and subsurface -- who held security clearances were reliable, level-headed, stable individuals with personalities strong enough to handle life at sea under stressful and often hazardous circumstances.

While I was going through the Naval Nuclear Program, there was an extremely high attrition rate.  There were 45 of us in our initial Nuclear Field A-School class-up, and by the other end of the nuclear training pipeline, there were 5 of us originals left.

The majority of those lost were due to academics, but some were "psych outs" as well.  People who simply could not handle the pressure, or were otherwise disqualified for psychological reasons.  And yes, some of those individuals were dropped simply because they could not obtain a security clearance.

So to reiterate, I don't know the specifics they use to evaluate suitability when it comes to psychological profiles.  And it's not a direct Q&A examination.

But there IS and evaluation process, and I can tell you from at least my observations (and the Navy's track record) that it's pretty effective.

Disclaimer: this opinion applies only to the nuclear Navy.  Conventional Navy psychological evaluations are outside my experience.

[pbsaurus]

The Air Traffic Controller screen for the FAA worked similarly.  They washed out more than 70% of the people entering.

[12AX7]

 When I was in I had a clearance ( Top Secret ), and only had a small, short interview in which they questioned me about Kathrin, who was still a German citizen and lived in Berlin at the time (1988). How the hell they knew about her I have no idea. But that wasn't all they knew. So yeh; Army 's screening for security clearance apparently works much the same way. Much background checking without your input and/or knowledge.