Topic: Political Mumblings (Read 6106 times)

Crystalmonkey · « **on:** August 10, 2005, 04:33:23 AM »

Reading, math standards unattainable, officials say

Wow. 'God' forbit everyone become proficient in reading and math. It might cost too much, or worse... let everyone think on their own! *Gasp* [Insert Dramatic Music]

Demosthenes · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2005, 08:12:10 AM »

Hey, we're talking about Kansas here.

It is quite possible that reading and math standards ARE unattainable there.

hackess · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2005, 08:12:45 AM »

You aware of No Child Left Behind, CM? It's not that eductors think that helping children learn to read and obtain mathematics skills isn't a good idea. It's that, ironically, they can't teach them to do that anymore.

School districts receive federal funding--massive quantities of federal funding--to try to meet the standards laid out in NCLB. If they don't meet them, they're placed on THE LIST, and lose funding. If they repeal the idiotic standards-to-be-met, they lose the funding. A lot of school districts have no money. They're forced to comply with NCLB just to stay afloat, but it's not enough to give children the proper education.

I learned how to read just fine. I can do mathematics. Most of my peers were pretty average learners, too. I even test well. My brother has no head for mathematics and tests poorly. He's intelligent, but tests just don't show what he's learned. NCLB is ALL about testing, even though a good number of studies (I'd have to find them, but it wouldn't be too difficult as I used to work for an education research center) show that standardized testing is not the best way to test aptitude and knowledge.

Don't get me started on NCLB. It's favoring already-performing school districts, and stomping on the ones who need the most help.

reimero · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2005, 08:25:19 AM »

Standardized $anything is the primary reason education sucks in this country and is rapidly falling past other countries. We try to solve the education problem by throwing more taxpayer money at it (which the NEA and school boards promptly gobble up in pay raises and more school administrator positions.) Programs for gifted students and less-than-gifted students alike are abolished so nobody feels bad, and then they refuse to flunk undeserving students.

The way teachers' contracts are set up is based on a seniority system rather than a skill set system. In our district, one special-needs student was denied necessary summer school because the teacher who would be teaching those classes got the position based on seniority, and was in no way qualified to tend to the special needs of this student.

Educators and administrators need to pull their heads out of their asses. Standardized tests don't do jack shit once you reach the workplace. Feeling good about yourself for doing mediocre work doesn't pay the bills. Our school systems are essentially sending the message that it's ok to suck, so why even bother trying to succeed?

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2005, 08:32:46 AM »

Granted, some people simply don't test well.

You must admit, though, that there are plenty of schools where crossword puzzles are the work for the day. Or perhaps simply busy work, like a worksheet or two.

Is it up to the kids to learn? Absolutely. But funding a daycare center for highschool kids is just a waste of money.

If there is going to be a debate on schooling though, we may want to make a new thread for it.

Edit: This was to what Cat was saying, I didn't read Reim until after I posted mine.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2005, 08:35:16 AM »

You guys, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUCKING KANSAS!!!!!!!

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2005, 08:43:46 AM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

You guys, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUCKING KANSAS!!!!!!!

*Psh* I don't think Kansas could be THAT stupid. Next you'll be telling me they are arguing over evolution or something.

TheJudge · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2005, 09:01:51 AM »

The education system works well for some people, as long as you fit the mold. When you don't, you're fucked. The system won't help you. When I say you're fucked, I don't mean your stupid, I mean you won't get the learning opportunities you should get because the system isn't flexible and does not allow variety in learning mechanisms. The system tends to favour people with good memory as "testing" is often based on the ability to cram useless information into one's skull. I know people who excelled at school and had 4.0 averages in university, but man, take away their books and ask them to do some actual work and they're totally worthless.

I'd like to see more "seminar" type of learning environmeent in classrooms where you throw away the books and discuss/debate various topics or role play various situations. For example, if you're studying business and you've already taken the theory classes, let's see how you can apply the concepts. Divid the group and create a real life scenario such as half the class pretending to be union braganining agents and the other half representing management of a company. Both groups have demands, both group need to work together, negociate, compromise and reach a solution. Or talk and debate abstract concepts collectively in a group. Sharpen your mind without relying so much on memory. A critical thinker is much more valuable than a walking database who's unsure of what to do with the information they hold.

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2005, 09:50:53 AM »

Quote from: TheJudge

I'd like to see more "seminar" type of learning environmeent in classrooms where you throw away the books and discuss/debate various topics or role play various situations.

I've been exposed to two styles of teaching, Lecture and Seminar, and since it was pretty recent (This prior school year) I'll just go through it quickly.

I used to go to BLS (Boston Latin School) which is acclaimed for being the "First Public School" in the U.S. It's supposed to be the best public school in the BPS (Boston Public Schools) system, with Boston Latin Academy and the O'Briant following it.

BLS is an exam school. You need to take and pass an entrance exam, as well as have good grades in your current school before being allowed entrance. (If that frightens you, it gets worse.)

The classes, surprise surprise, are all lecture based. The teacher tells you 2 + 2 = 4, and if you ask why, the answer is because they said so. (Not a literal example, but I've asked a few times why such and such was a fact and there were plenty of teachers who refused to answer.)

In English class, for example, you are given a worksheet based on the current book the class is reading. There is no discussion of the worksheet, beyond saying the answers. (Question: What did Tom Sawyer tell Huck Finn as they were leaving?)

As a whole, the school seemed to try and crush creativity and promote "dissent with responsibility" in order to foster "productive citizens in a democracy and responsible adults who have an awareness of global issues."

I guess that would be why my Latin teacher often spoke about sports and football, to try and promote awareness of global issues.

To be fair, he also spoke about the elections and politics, and he was one of the few teachers to encourage us to think about government and culture. He rarely taught Latin, but if he had been a Political Science/Global Issues teacher he would have rocked.

One of my English teachers decided it would be a good idea to require us to have a full page of notes every day. It didn't matter what was said on the pages, but you had to have a full page a day. Also, even when she was absent the entire page had to be full of a page. It was supposed to be about what we learned while she wasn't there. You can imagine the fun when she wasn't found for two weeks and then came back to tell us that we had to have notes for every day she was gone. Joy.

Don't bother asking one of the teachers to stay after school and help if you are having problems. Once the bell rings, most of them are out of there in a flash.

Oh, and don't bother questioning what they are saying. They are teachers, they obviously know more about everything than you do. No exceptions.

Well, talking about the hell that was my earlier education has gotten me upset. I'm going to go get some Slush and hang out with a friend. I'll write part 2 tonight.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2005, 07:43:21 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

You guys, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUCKING KANSAS!!!!!!!

Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2005, 07:44:00 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

You guys, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUCKING KANSAS!!!!!!!

Alrighty then, carry on my wayward son.

Quatra · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2005, 09:23:49 PM »

Quote

A critical thinker is much more valuable than a walking database who's unsure of what to do with the information they hold.

That's fair. If someone would tell me what I'm good at then I'd know what to concentrate on in school, I've always been one of thoose kids who tested extremely well.

GenStyx · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2005, 02:27:45 AM »

Quote from: pbsaurus

Quote from: Demosthenes
You guys, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUCKING KANSAS!!!!!!!

Alrighty then, carry on my wayward son.

There'll be peace when you are done.
Lay your weary head to rest.
Don't you cry Lacerda.

doomtroll · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2005, 09:26:07 AM »

I have an isssues with NCLB...it should be called No Teacher Left Standing

My Mother Inlaw was an English teacher for a Local Junior High School for 30 years & retired when she saw her peers drop like flies for lack of certifications...some of these teachers had been there for years & couldn't be replaced.....

Its hard enough to find people who want to teach....this is only making things worse...My children will be home schooled...

GenStyx · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2005, 09:52:29 AM »

I was thinking about at home schooling for my future kids, but I feel they would miss out too much socially. As a parent I will encourage learning and do my best to facilitate that process with opportunities and encouragement. I went to public school (till college) and I think I have turned out well. I think if you are a good and supportive parent, you don't need to necessarily "home school" them, but act as a suppliment to the crappy education provided by teh school system.
Help them want to study and want to push and learn for themselves then they can navigate through the school system as they please.

blueeyedmama · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:52:48 PM »

I'm currently unschooling my daughter. When she gets old enough for structure we will be homeschooling with unschooling techniques mixed in (for both kids).

I'm glad that the 'socialization' thing isn't an issue any more. While I would have felt comfortable finding activities to promote socialization OUT of school, some schools now allow participation in some classes or activities for homeschooled children. I think this will be particularly important as my kids approach high school. I can teach some subjects, but geometry? HA! If my kids choose to take those classes at school, I probably won't have a problem with it, esp. at that age.

Public schools were unable to meet my needs as a child. They were unable to meet my husband's needs as a child either. Now they're even MORE hamstrung? I just don't see how public school can be a positive place for my children. If socialization was more important than education, why would we have school at all? Socialization does nothing if you're socializing with other people who know nothing.

Quatra · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2005, 01:45:58 AM »

Quote

I was thinking about at home schooling for my future kids, but I feel they would miss out too much socially.

I went to public school until two years into highschool then I started independant study. Basicaly I learned in forty minutes what I would in a week in public school on a subject. They base your grade less on homework and participation and more on tests. Even though I was cut off from my former highschool I didn't miss out on anything socialy, in fact, I got out of the house pretty much every day and met a lot of others with similar interests and I even attended social events that, before I joined the independent study program, was completley ignorant of. I even had more time to do things that I would've had to put off for later such as reading some of my favourite books, writing, and studying subjects that had been taken out of our school system and studying them from more credible textbooks than our school system deemed affordable.

I'm getting off the point though. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't send your kid to a horrible school because you think they'll miss out or something, believe me, they'll prosper from the lack of mind numbing mediocrity.

blueeyedmama · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:54:09 PM »

well said, quatra

doomtroll · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2005, 10:58:55 AM »

Quote from: Quatra

Quote
I was thinking about at home schooling for my future kids, but I feel they would miss out too much socially.

I went to public school until two years into highschool then I started independant study. Basicaly I learned in forty minutes what I would in a week in public school on a subject. They base your grade less on homework and participation and more on tests. Even though I was cut off from my former highschool I didn't miss out on anything socialy, in fact, I got out of the house pretty much every day and met a lot of others with similar interests and I even attended social events that, before I joined the independent study program, was completley ignorant of. I even had more time to do things that I would've had to put off for later such as reading some of my favourite books, writing, and studying subjects that had been taken out of our school system and studying them from more credible textbooks than our school system deemed affordable.

I'm getting off the point though. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't send your kid to a horrible school because you think they'll miss out or something, believe me, they'll prosper from the lack of mind numbing mediocrity.

even more reasons I will home school my kids...I want them to have an education..not an evaluation...

GenStyx · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2005, 12:39:14 PM »

Well, my experience in public school was a positive one. The public schools in my area are considered to be some of the best in the nation. This bias probably exists because there is a lot of money in my area, but could also be from other reasons. I certainly would not want to send my kids to a crappy public school. Also, while at school I would most likely try to talk to them and find out what they think of school, what they do, talk ot the teacher, etc. If I am not satisfied then I wouldn't hesitate to home-school them.

One thing I appreciated from public schools were the sports that they offered. I have been a competitive swimmer for most of my life (till college because I didn't want to waste my time in the pool when I could be smoking pot and playing video games/computer games...oh, and if my parents are reading this, this means studying at the library and doing homework) and now I still compete with water polo. I realize that there are other leagues out there, but not necessarily of the same quality, although I think you might still be able to participate even if you are homeschooled. I don't want to get too ahead of myself though. I am only 21 and I will look more into it when I actually have a child.

Thnaks for the input from everyone. It has been helpful in my planning of the future.

Quatra · « **Reply #20 on:** August 15, 2005, 05:03:48 AM »

Quote

public schools in my area are considered to be some of the best in the nation.

I can't imagine that's saying much. I'd much rather send my kids to a private school until they got to about 8th or 9th grade. I think it's important to be exposed to that kind of setting so that you learn how a society works.(That's all a school is good for in my opinion)

TheJudge · « **Reply #21 on:** August 15, 2005, 09:58:26 AM »

Quote from: GenStyx

The public schools in my area are considered to be some of the best in the nation. This bias probably exists because there is a lot of money in my area, but could also be from other reasons....

...(till college because I didn't want to waste my time in the pool when I could be smoking pot and playing video games/computer games...

Geee no wonder the public schools in your area are the best in the nation, you people wait till you get in college to get high. What's up with that?

GenStyx · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2005, 11:33:48 AM »

Quote from: TheJudge

Quote from: GenStyx
The public schools in my area are considered to be some of the best in the nation. This bias probably exists because there is a lot of money in my area, but could also be from other reasons....

...(till college because I didn't want to waste my time in the pool when I could be smoking pot and playing video games/computer games...

Geee no wonder the public schools in your area are the best in the nation, you people wait till you get in college to get high. What's up with that?

Haha Judge. Who said anything about waiting? I've been getting high since 9th grade. All this talk about getting high makes me wanna get high.

Y'all wanna get high? - Towelie

Don't forget to bring a towel!

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Author Topic: Political Mumblings (Read 6106 times)