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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[Chris]

Here we go. Someone brought up "the good book".

Gothic athiests who live in their parents' basement will flock to this thread in 3... 2... 1...

[LuciferSam]

I think it's time I bust out a very old set of sig/av images...

[MISTER MASSACRE]

No one said anything about Islam being a religion of peace. They quite clearly said peas and then everyone got it all messed up!

[12AX7]

Huh. Must've been the accent.

[Myriter]

All religions have three stages.

1. The Infant stage
This is where everyone tries as hard as they can to beat up the religion, (i.e Christians in ancient Rome or Scientology in Tom Cruises spare room).

2.The Teenager stage
This is where that religion goes out and destroys everything that pisses it off, (i.e Christians in the Holy Crusades or Islam today).

3.The Elderly stage
This is where they are too old and lazy to kick religious ass anymore, (i.e. The Pope)

[Wunderkind]

Your powers of observation are astounding. Thank you for shaing with us the depth of your profound wisdom, but please, I am simple and poor, and therefor ignorant.

What are your opinions about Islam claiming itself a religion of peace?

Do you agree with Lacerda and believe that they said peas and, like 12 mentioned, it was the accent that fucked it up?

If so, what are your feelings on Islam being a religion of peas? Do peas vary in their religions? Are they more prone to highly spiritualized concepts, like Islam, or do they more readily accept scientific views? I have witnessed my sweet-peas develop a world-domination complex. Do you feel that Islam would appeal to my sweet-peas? Is it possible my sweet-peas were Islamic already? Do you think that snow-peas would be less likely to accept the Islamic religion than snap-peas? Why or why not?

EDIT: On a side note, I'm afraid my pole beans this year are Catholic. They keep trying to reach out and touch the seedling tomatoes. I'm not sure how to handle the situation.

[Joe Sixpack]

Muslims practically invented science, so there's really no merit in trying to say that Islam in general is against education or new ideas in general.  Now whether there is a strain that is popular today, or at least is being reported as such, that doesn't share this "intellectualism"... there is probably not much of a debate about that. Religion has always been a tool to some extent, and this one happens to have a buttload of poor, un(der)educated, justly pissed off people available to support it.

Name a religion (besides Buddhism) and I can probably give you an example of epic douchebaggery perpetrated in their name.  It's not really fair to single out this one because it happens to be fashionable.

[Myriter]

What are your opinions about Islam claiming itself a religion of peace?

Do you agree with Lacerda and believe that they said peas and, like 12 mentioned, it was the accent that fucked it up?

This ones easy. They were never peas as it is common knowledge that peas live in a highly developed community based on using logic instead of morals. The Great Prophet Isaiah simply used to use a small empty section of the Koran as a groceries list.
You obviously never read The Courgette Code.

[Wunderkind]

...peas live in a highly developed community based on using logic ...

That does explain my sweet peas attempting to utilize my car for their own transportation.

[Vespertine]

Muslims practically invented science, so there's really no merit in trying to say that Islam in general is against education or new ideas in general.  Now whether there is a strain that is popular today, or at least is being reported as such, that doesn't share this "intellectualism"... there is probably not much of a debate about that. Religion has always been a tool to some extent, and this one happens to have a buttload of poor, un(der)educated, justly pissed off people available to support it.

Name a religion (besides Buddhism) and I can probably give you an example of epic douchebaggery perpetrated in their name.  It's not really fair to single out this one because it happens to be fashionable.

I think I've got to go with Joe on this one.  I've been following this thread for awhile now, and intentionally staying out of it.  I'm not trying to be intentionally provocative, but I find the general theme of this thread to be borderline bigoted.  I've known far too many "middle of the road" Muslims to buy into the idea that Islam and its followers desire to wipe out all non-believers.  It's no different than bitching about the evil behemoth of "communist China".  There is a minority that perpetrate horrible acts in the name of the ideology, but the remaining majority shouldn't be lumped into that category.

[12AX7]

.

[12AX7]

.

[dcrog]

Name a religion (besides Buddhism) and I can probably give you an example of epic douchebaggery perpetrated in their name.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/search/content/oh/story/business/2008/04/14/ddn041408churchbarweb.html

I might just convert.

[Wunderkind]

So where is this "majority" of middle of the road Muslims (its funny how everyone knows a bunch of middle of the road Muslims) and why are they so silent when such acts are perpetrated in their name?
 The difference between China and Islamic fundamentalists is China isn't planning to kill you and "wipe out" your way of living. And you don't have to "buy into it". Just read the damn text, and listen to WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY ARE PLANNING TO DO. GOD DAMN.
 Have you not heard the threats? So what are you "buying into"? You think I just made all this shit up?

Embarassment. The so-called "middle of the road Muslims" that I have spoken with react with embarassment. I would imagine it is the same embarassment a "middle of the road Catholic" would have had during the Spanish Inquisition.

I will not argue that Islam the religion has some disturbing principles and that it encourages, promotes, and even sets out guidelines for the distruction of other races and beliefs. But you seem to be lumping Muslims the people into one giant swarmy group. This is about the same as me saying that Christians are Bible-toting sermon-whores who are going to try and convert me in order to secure their place in heaven. If I read certain passages in the Bible I will find that it encourages and support evangelism, perhaps a more passive version than the afore mentioned, but I could always chop some stuff out context to make it sound much more disturbing. Taking a religion or belief system and forcing anyone who associates themselves with it into the strict box that is extremism is a bit of a bigot statement. I know a few reasonable people who just happen to atheists just as I know a few reasonable people who just happen to be Muslim.

Also, just because I see their belief system as an out of control balistic missile, written by a guy who seemed to be writing more with his pants than his head, doesn't make it so. My perspective is that of someone who was raised in a certain culture surrounded by certain other beliefs. If I were raised in a different environment with a different perspective perhaps it would make more sense to me. As it is, the Q'uran read to me as a bunch of angry teenagers screaming about how much they hate the world and are going to destroy it. It all sounded very childish. But it is a book, and saying that people who read it are also very childish would be walking on eggshells.

I guess, essentially, what I'm getting at is that I would prefer it if this were a debate about a theology and not a people, since each person is going to comprehend a theology differently and therefor there is no way to say that a group of people does this or does that solely based on their belief in a theology.

[12AX7]

.

[Wunderkind]

And how the FUCK is it bigoted to talk about a group who proclaim OUT FUCKING LOUD that they're goal is to wipe out non-believers?

Define they, please.

I may not fully agree with V, but I can see her point. I'm guilty of it as well in a couple places. I don't think it was ever out-right stated but in a few places it was inferred, mostly in tiny grammatical instances that give rise to a tone that the reader might take as bigoted.

I didn't write that article, not did I interview the guy in the video, nor did I make any of this up.

No one is saying you did. That's kind of what I think several people have been trying to point out. The article may have been a tad flawed.

On the other hand, there isn't a single religion out there that can't be twisted into something violent and repulsive if certain passages of their holy books are taken out of context or taken literally (or hell, just taken too seriously for that matter).

2.The Teenager stage
This is where that religion goes out and destroys everything that pisses it off, (i.e Christians in the Holy Crusades or Islam today).

Muslims practically invented science, so there's really no merit in trying to say that Islam in general is against education or new ideas in general.  Now whether there is a strain that is popular today, or at least is being reported as such, that doesn't share this "intellectualism"... there is probably not much of a debate about that. Religion has always been a tool to some extent, and this one happens to have a buttload of poor, un(der)educated, justly pissed off people available to support it.

Name a religion (besides Buddhism) and I can probably give you an example of epic douchebaggery perpetrated in their name.  It's not really fair to single out this one because it happens to be fashionable.

I think the general theme here is that any religion can be warped into a seething pile of hatred and malfunction. That doesn't make it so, it just makes it the general perception. And, as history has proven, the general perception is almost always flawed.

I don't think you're making any of this up, but I do think the person who wrote the article and took the interview was little biased to his own perspective. (Who isn't?) That bias (as well as his elementary technique) is something that should be taken into consideration since anyone could do what he did with any obscure holy book and one really passionate extremist of that chosen religion.

[12AX7]

Define they, please.

HAHA! Got me. I fixed it. 

[Vespertine]

ok. I was under the impression you guys had READ the thread, and what I actually POSTED. To save you some time, Im going to quote them here.

You're out of line.  You know damn good and well that I read this thread, because I said, "I've been following this thread for awhile now...".

...So show me. Im waiting.

Thanks, but I think I'll pass.  I don't respond well to commands, to insults, to the implication that (because I don't agree with you) my priorities are fucked up, or to profanity being hurled my way as a counter-argument in a dialogue.

[12AX7]

.

[12AX7]

You're out of line.  You know damn

 to insults, to the implication that (because I don't agree with you) my priorities are fucked up, or to profanity being hurled my way as a counter-argument in a dialogue.

pot . kettle. black.

[Wunderkind]

No. The general theme was supposed to have been that moderate muslims are so quiet about the extremists;

Okay, I was talking about the quotes I presented and not the thread.

Define they, please.

HAHA! Got me. I fixed it. 

Actually I was kind of pointing out that "they" isn't a defined group, but rather a suggested group. I'm guilty of doing this alot and tend to get scored badly in essays because of it. It's what makes a listener/reader interpret a statement different than the speaker's/writer's intention. I only noticed it because someone reading over my shoulder pointed it out to me. By not defining "they" the reader is forced to make an assumption.
    When I went back and re-read the thread I realized there was a lot left open to interpretation, a lot I didn't mean to be. It does sound a little piggish if read from certain perspective. It wasn't meant that way.

As for the "where are the moderates" question you asked, I have a found an answer. They’re in St. Petersburg, Florida.

In a cruel irony, attempts by hard-liners to silence these reformers have often received more attention than the reformers themselves.

(The article isn't completely on-topic but it might answer a few questions. There are moderates out there, they're just getting less publicity than non-reformists.)

[12AX7]

.

[Wunderkind]

I know, but I was already mad, and looking at it my way made me feel better.

I'm glad it made you feel better. For a minute there it seemed you were going to send yourself into a false molt. There were going to be little 12 feathers everywhere.

[12AX7]

.

[Myriter]

(The article isn't completely on-topic but it might answer a few questions. There are moderates out there, they're just getting less publicity than non-reformists.)

When was the last time moderates of any sort got any publicity?

Germans are all Nazis.
Priests are all child molesters.
And Muslims all have bombs strapped to their waists.

The media's trying to sell papers. Maybe moderate Muslims don't talk about extremists because they feel the same way about them as an "average" citizen of the western world would.