Yeah it's been confirmed that the gun they found in the car is the same as gun that fired on the 11 victims. The guy had setup a sniper's nest in his trunk while the kid was driving. Clever plan I must say. Sick, but clever. But look at who's clever now... They will end up in jail and will probably be killed by other prisoners (cross your fingers!). Or they just may get a death sentence. But this is going to take a while before the courts get their act together and shit. But it appears as though my theory was correct based on the post above. I guess my sig moto is accurate! lol!

[/b]

Ya called it, bro.

Now, questions for everyone:
1. what do you think will happen to the two fuckers (i.e. sentence wise)
Not Enough. No matter what it turns out to be, it will be too civilized and too little and too late.

2. what do you WISH would happend to them in the short term?
That they had resisted arrest! Now, I hope that they get the jailhouse justice as suggested by others, here. Would only be fair for them to taste a little of the terror...

3. do you feel safer?
Changes nothing. In the US ALONE I'd guess there are at least 1,000 more just like JF Mohammad. Question is, how many of them are capable and clever enough to find their little niche in history without raising red flags before they get started.

4. are you concerned about more sniper attacks in the future?
There will be. Bank it.

5. does anyone like the public execution idea?
AbsoFUCKINGlutely. To dissuade people who only understand power, you must publicly demonstrate power and an utterly ruthless willingness to use it. Nothing else makes any impression upon them.

These people are pretty simple. We don't need any talking heads on TV to "understand" them and some imaginary complex motives.

The Islamic True Believer will seek a way to further Islam - and Islam teaches that harming the Non-Believers (the infidel animal) is one way to do it - and if killed in the act, the Believer will go to Paradise. The Motive. Finis.

Some people are so blind and stupid as to think that murdering women and children will gain Islam new followers - just look at the Palestinian suicide bombers. They are so full of their brand of shit that it does not even occur to them that anything else matters or that there might a differing POV. In other words, since their "struggle" is at the center of their personal Universe, they assume it is at the center of EVERYONE'S Universe. Does this sound like the Saudis and Egyptians and all the rest of the Arab "nations" telling the US to solve the "Palestinian Issue" first; that this must be done before trying to solve anything else? I thought it might. <G>

Fuck Terror. Fuck Terrorists. Fuck Muslim Terrorists.

Get pissed off. Learn everything you can about these cretins.

Open your eyes and ears. Pay attention to faces, clothing, cars, color, make, year, behavior, mannerisms, comments. Just be, generally speaking, alert to what's around you.

You never know when you might be in the shoes of the Truck Driver who did this and identified JFM's car to the cops and ended this particular nightmare. Bravo and Kudos to him! Let's be ready to do the same if we have the chance - it's the LEAST we can do to combat this insanity.

"And the Shooter IS..." <insert drum roll here> :

John Fuckwad Mohammad - surprise, surprise!!!

Described by acquaintences interviewed thus far as a "control freak" and "malcontent" and "anti-social" who converted to Islam! What a surprise! As their motto sez, "Hey, if you don't fit in with normal people, join us! We're bottom-feeders - we'll take ANYBODY - and we'll issue a License to Kill - absolutely free!"

I ask you: Who could ask for anything more?!!!?!!

Fark provided this link on The Smoking Gun site with mucho info... Get it while it's hot...

I hate to tell you, Paco, but a lot of memebers here will not read anything more than a paragraph or two.

Hmmm.

I'll respond with a Woody Allen joke:

"I took the Evelyn Wood Speedreading course.
 I read "War and Peace" in twenty minutes.
 It's about Russia."

Let's not go smacking Islam with a giant "THIS IS ALL THERE IS TO THIS RELIGION" brush. Islam's got as many different sects/flavours/whateverthefucks as any other major religion, and not all of them want to drill you in the head for owning property & voting.

[/b]

And?

The ones that DO wanna smack you in the head...

Naw, not good enough - let's call a spade a spade:
The ones who want to kill you and destroy your entire way of life as an affront to their beliefs, for no more reason than the fact that you aren't one of them...

These people, to respond to your assertion, are perfectly capable and willing and numerous enough to seriously fuck with your world. Not to mention mine.

So. What to do, what to do... whatever shall we do?

Ignore them? Wait for them to crawl into YOUR little bubble and pop it?

The ones who DON'T want to screw with you are rather SHY, assuming there is any substantive number of them that actually fall into this category, wouldn't you agree?

C'mon. Name ONE unpaid True Believer of standing within Islam who has taken the pulpit / lectern / microphone and risen above the psychobabble / kissass apologists / raving lunacy / cries of the grief-stricken families - the whole spectrum of reaction to this situation to denounce these cretins and murderers.

Just ONE of any standing. Anyone at all, who is clean and outraged and on the air - defending your right to be even SLIGHTLY different from them.

Hell, read their stuff and name one of them who doesn't see you as an animal - less than a man - for being a non-believer. S'okay, I'll wait.

Have you done your homework? Methinks not, given your words.

Ask the WTC families, Bali vacationers & families, Phillipino folks if they agree with you.

You DO realize that it is Islam which has made the issue of Islam vs Everyone else so sharp and narrow, right?

I have never seen anything even remotely so clearly defined as this, so I can certainly forgive a first take wherein it is assumed that it just CAN'T be like that - he's being too MEAN and UNJUST! I AM a kinda mean guy when it comes to innocents becoming victims - just grates, y'know?

Go check it out, bro.

Get back to me when you're armed and fortified with facts and you STILL find yourself wanting to saddle up the razor blade.

I'll bring the alcohol.

You provide the nerve endings.

Quote from: Paco DeGaillo

They might bomb the CN tower in toronto any day because the structure represents our accomplishments in some regards.

Watch this flash movie: [click]
Watch it the whole way through, and you will see why Osama hates towers.

Reminds me of a Dr. Demento sketch too...

Hey, bubba. How's it going?

I'm on an Internet Cafe connection: 8 PC's with 5 occupied at present, sharing a 56K dialup - no sound.

I'll email the link to myself, instead, and watch it when I go back to the shit - in a few weeks from now.

Thanx for the thought, however!

That's all very insightfull info. The question I'm asking is what can the average Joe do about this?

[/b]

Well, I didn't say there was a lot you could do about it, at this moment, except be informed and not fooled by the apologists. More below...

I understand islam has quite the radical philosphy and outragous beleifs. And they think of ours in the samme way. Simply because they are black and white. I understand that they don't necessarly have a grudge against amerca, but about what america symbolises. So any "Free" country could be a target. They might bomb the CN tower in toronto any day because the structure represents our accomplishments in some regards. However, considering that they have limited resources, you have to agree that they just can't hit everyone. Therefore they have to pick and choose. They choose america because it is the ultimate country of freedom in the world. I'm not really concerned about a bomb landing at my door. I'm in a small city. It would be a waist of limited resources. Until they are stopped, it is most likely that the major citys in U.S. will be targeted. Having said that, I return to my initial question: What the hell can I do except hoping that they realise that what they are doing is wrong. Unfortunatly, they choose death over reason.

Today we're talking about semi-organized groups - al Qaeda, for instance. Tomorrow, we're talking about any Mohammed or Abdul or Sameer - all by himself - trying to score points on his private road to Paradise. He might do that by cutting your throat while you're occupied dispensing a fruit smoothie at the local 7-11... he might, and this is more likely, just place his homemade bomb in the trash container at the front door on his way out after renting "Risky Business" for the 40th time. The situation will degenerate to that, someday soon, as we begin to respond to the organized version.

There is a MUCH longer answer, but that's the economy size.

I recommend that you read about the madrasah, and variations on Muslim "education." This is total indoctrination. Once an adult, it's probably far too late - the damage is done and you won't be able to "reach" the person inside of the religious cocoon.

As for what you can do, well, arming yourself (literally and, especially, informationally)  for the next phase, the "personal" phase is how I perceive it, wouldn't be a bad idea. I have a 37" Samurai sword, myself (a real one, not the ornamental junk), though I doubt I will face Islam in my home - it will be a public attack with the victim(s) being in the "To Whom It May Concern..." category.

Who knows, though, you may be young enough to end up being drafted when the call comes from your society to wipe out the nest in which this insanity breeds. That could be in S.A. or Egypt - or it could be the Mosque on the other side of town.

I agree 100%.  We removed most of the visible "teeth" in this critter, but we left the goddamn thing alive and with a brood of younguns to raise. It'll be back unless they get a real tough guy to take charge (read: a militant dictator type like what Pakistan has).

[/b]

Y'know, I've been looking at this Iraq thing long and hard - trying to separate out my pro/con arguments and drop them into various buckets (emotional, political, intellectual, etc.) and then reevaluate... Since geo43 IS going to do it, barring something truly extraordinary...

<fantasyflash>
Hypothetical Example News Flashes:

 French Arabs - 6% of the pop, declares jihad on the US - Chirac
   agrees to drag other 94% along since one of his mistresses
   emigrated from Lebanon as a child - the source of one of his
   favourite fanatasies;
...
 Germany, supercharged into Nationalistic fervor by Wagner
   Skinhead Festival, goes Gothic and joins on provision that
   US press will be destroyed for making fun of Shroeder's dyed
   hair - and exposing German commercial complicity in Iraq's
   Chemical and Biological WMD programs;
...
 Italy goes to long lunch and, during hommus course at La Arabia
   Fantastique, decides to add their 2 cents when the wine runs out
   and they face eventually returning to work sober;
...
 Vatican see opportunity to distance itself from renegade US Church
   which insists that Pedophilia isn't really a "healthy tradition" as
   claimed by Vatican insider memos;
...
 Russia, wanting desperately to be "European" agrees to join on
   the condition they get Alaska back;
...
Summary - no one is actually voting on issue of IRAQ - that's just the chip in play...
</fantasyflash>

I figured I might as well play it out and see whassup in the "Guess Your Weight" Carnival of GeoPolitical Shenanigans. In the purely political bucket, it will be a very VERY interesting experiment in promotion of democracy - and destabilization of totalitarian regimes, at least all of those that can see themselves in the same place as the Iraqis. This will include the other 21 Arab "countries" - at least as defined by the Brits over tea one lazy afternoon near the end of WW-II. I believe, and mentally picture, the Arab World like a woven hammock. I am convinced that if you undo the outtermost knot - the rest come unraveled by themselves in turn if under tension. It would be very interesting, indeed, to see the effect the democratization of Iraq has on the rest. I found a small amount of satisfaction when Powell talked about the Post-War Iraq rehabilitation schemes under consideration - and specified the Marshall Plan and Occupation of Japan as models at the top of the list - though "nothing has been selected" yet.

On the subject of Pakistan, for that matter, we find ourselves currently in the unfortunate position of having to support a militant dictator who took over his country via a violent coup, dissolved the country's parliament, and is having phony-baloney "elections" to make it looks like he gives a damn (even though he still retains the power to override anything this new parliament puts in place, and he still reserves the ability to dissolve this one too... some democracy).  And the stupid thing is, I don't see any alternative for us in Pakistan BUT to support this asshat... if his regime topples, suddenly we have an entire nation of Islamic extremists that have nuclear weapons.  Granted, they're short range nukes, but ask India if they're even remotely comforted by that fact... or our State Department, for that matter.  Feh.

Looks like the Euro Election Watchers were not impressed and called the voting process "flawed" - diplomatic-speak for "stolen" outright, I guess. It IS one of the more bizarre situations we've found ourselves in for some time. He IS a dictator, but hasn't looted the bank, I think he just likes the power. He hasn't really done all that much about corruption, but the Euro intellectuals say he has no choice - all of the pool of potential qualified administrators are corrupt - is this a constant PakIndiLaysian condition? In areas of particular US interest he has been stalwart and as good as his word (Daniel Perl investigation, rounding up people we want on Terrorist List, etc.). If he were only as conscientious regards his own people. Sigh. I was one who thought the Pak-Indi confrontation a few months ago was hysterically funny. The shrill stridency these two entities have toward each other merely underlines the fact that there isn't spit's difference between them. Only the idiocy of religion. Otherwise they're indistinguishable, hence the vehemence of their antipathy. I was expecting there to be 2 smoking holes when it climaxed. Instead, it was just the traditional high-volume, but low spark of a couple of high-heeled boys...

Agreed. The House just voted and cleared the way for Bushie's Excellent Adventure. Expect it in Mid-Dec to Mid-Jan timeframe. I expect to be out of S.A., one way of the other, by 1st week of Feb, if not sooner.

That's about the timetable I'm thinking.  That will be enough time for the Bush 43 spin machine to have probably bullied some assholes into supporting this (i.e., France, Germany, and a reluctant Russia... yes, I do see them caving eventually, if Bushie and Powell work them enough) too.  Plus, if I know anything about military readiness (and I like to think I do, at least ), they aren't going to do anything half-assed.  They are going to do a massive buildup in probably two or three key locations, and then hit hard, and most importantly FAST, knocking down communications, anti-aircraft defenses, and taking steps to blow up bridges that have been built since the '91 incursion.  Heh.  It must really suxx0r to be a civil engineer working in Iraq...

Well, if they agree or not, he's going, I think. He ALREADY has the UN mandate from the '92 Cease Fire. He is covered, whether the UN weeners like it or not. They should be more prescient and careful in their language when writing resolutions if they want to actually limit how these things play out over time! The joke in S.A. is that Bahrain is dangerously close to flipping over, like an air mattress in a pool, cuz the US is stacking so much ordinance down in the SW corner of the island. I agree it will be a blitzkreig - one that would even astonish Hitler.

One good thing I can see about the actuall Mil attack will be that, for ONCE in my lifetime, State will not be standing there wringing their hands and opposing the Joint Chiefs every step of the way moaning about giving negotiations another chance - our historical norm. I believe that it had its place, once upon a time, but no more. You cannot be a "little bit pregnant" with today's weaponry and tactics. Everything is integrated and interdependent, thus it must occur as planned to preclude casualties. I do like and appreciate the changes that have occurred in MilThink since the Viet Nam era - now they try a helluvalot harder to minimize casualties - not leaving that issue to each Company or Battalian commander. Remember the bad old days when some goof wearing Eagles could wander around the sky, safe in his "mobile command post", and repeatedly demand that troopers far below "take that hill" - only to abandon it once taken.

Regards Iraqi Civil Engrs - talk about job security!

But I don't really mean that. The "plan" info that has come my way is quite different from what I've heard in the press - and any previous US campaign. This time the focus is strictly on Saddam, his home village / city of Tikrete, his direct-report "council" / bodyguards, and the Republicn Guard Divisions. What I've heard is that this will be a blitzkreig beheading. All told in initial strike: approx 48 hrs. Then short "cooling" period of about 24 hrs - in which the only air traffic will be Wild Weasels (to take out any remaining anti-air assets) and Psy-Ops (dropping leaflets telling everyone that Saddam has been removed from power - he is running nothing other than his skinny-assed legs trying to get away). Then, in a combo-inside-out invasion: Southward sweep from Northern Kurdish territory and Northward sweep from Southern Shi'a territory around Basra to create classic pincer - PLUS heavy para-drops in and around Baghdad to augment those SF guys that were dropped to take out Tikrete and do target designation in targeting Sadda, the Council, and reduction of Guard Leadership. The Iraqi Man On The Street will be informed that he is free and alive - and will stay that way if he doesn't pick up arms from the dead. A few will, of course - every "civilization" has its share of hair-shirt fools, but most will not. They will wait it out for the 3-5 days it takes for the "invading" troops to take up positions and dig in and complete the clean-up of the identified Saddam forces already specified as targets. If you weren't a target in the initial attacks, so goes the leaflet message, you are not now. If you like it that way, be cool and hang on. If you want to die on the spot, pick that AK-47 you see lying next to the headless Iraqi Ba'ath Party official.

They are the one Govt entity I can think of that, when they say they are gonna do something, well you can take it to the bank and cash it - whether you happen to like it, or not. That certainly gets my attention! You're undoubtedly right, too, that now they don't need us much relative to '67 or '73. Here are a couple of links, complete with some degree of ax-grinding, that provides a fascinating comparison of the Timeline of the Land, from the Arab and Jewish POV's:
http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm
http://www.palestine-net.com/history/bhist.html

I'll check those out when I get the chance.  That's always an interesting activity, comparing two versions of the same events.... it's sort of like reading some of the "men who killed Kennedy" conspiracy books, and then reading "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner.

I don't know if you've read Posner's book on the JFK assassination or not, but if not, suffice it to say that his opinion of the Warren Commission report/investigation could also be summed up as that "never assume malicious intent when gross incompetence will suffice" quote as well.  In other words, just because there were some fuckups and inconsistencies in the investigation does not a conspiracy make.  You and I BOTH know from our own experience that the US government (in particular when you are crossing multiple agencies) is far too incompetent to ever contain any kind of conspiracy of that size and magnitude for more than about thirty seconds before severely fucking something up.

I know Posner by reputation - he has done a bunch of Talk Shows on the topic, right? I agree that the Warren Comm report is full of holes and incompetence - and is the main cause for all of the conspiracy shit that has arisen. Had they been even semi-competent and semi-thorough, there wouldn't have been much left to argue about. But nooooooo. They fucked it up big-time, allowed the Sec Svc & FBI to play all sorts of ass-coverage games, and created the entire problem. 100% Agreement with you about secrecy (ha!) in most quarters - especially civilian... I have to assume that Civ Intel / Law Enfordement was even more naive and unwitting, regards secrecy and the need to conatin info, than the Mil guys - most of whom knew people could die when intel was compromised. Not that it would necessarily deter - you could get yourself free drinks for life with the right word here or there - that sort of thing - and not really come to grips with how often this was occurring and how devastating it could be on an investigation or to a "secret" project or mission. Sometimes, like the TV of the day, it's as if people were just one hell of a lot simpler-minded back then. Naive and foolish.

Hmmmm. I'm wondering if you feel / felt same way about US troops stationed in more civilized / modern locales - Germany, Japan, Korea, et al? If so, okay, I can dig it. We DO have too many in "pre-positioned readiness" if we don't intend to attack or have intel that we will soon need to defend or have more than needed to maintain facilities. Funny thing is, being stationed outside of the US is quite popular with the troops - even the ones stationed in the remote sandy reaches aren't wildly unhappy. There are bennies and there are career payoffs for being in the "hardship" posts. Almost everyone in US Mil uniform, today, sees himself / herself as career... makes sense in all-vol force, right? So you'd find a funny response from those on whose behalf you're arguing.

I do feel that way regarding our troops in Korea, Japan, and Germany, et al.  Not even so much "on the behalf of" our troops there... I was in the US Navy; I know how good a duty station foreign deployment can be from a soldier's POV.

I'm instead arguing it from the stance of "I dislike deploying our resources to guard the borders of other peoples' countries".  Plain and simple.  Let's pay attention to guarding our own country, and I mean that in the most literal sense.  It's expensive to keep troops more-or-less permanently housed, fed, clothed, and at-the-ready outside of our country, essentially just to make Joe German and Ken Korean feel secure in their borders.  Fuck that.  Bring them home, use part of what we get back for our closer-to-home defense, disband the rest and save John Q. Taxpayer a few billion dollars.

7th Fleet? Did you "do" Pattaya, Thailand? A "legendary" stop, I've heard from ex-Navy guys. <G> Sure looks different from my POV, I'm sure. This is the "raw" edge of Thailand, where the rubber met the, uh, er, road perhaps once or ten thousand times too often!

I agree with you on nixing the notion that we should be required to put our people in the ground in large number to protect the soil of an ally - who's perfectly capable of fielding an adequate force to defend itself, if a defense is actually required. I don't mind supplying trainers, liasons, and similar personnel. But I know what it was...
The real reason for stationing our troops all over was simple: we didn't trust giving our best tech arms to our allies. It would end up on the black market overnight. If that doesn't make you shake you head in exasperation, I duuno what will! <g> Sheesh, consider the implications!

So, if your national interest policy dictated that we needed to defend a line here and here and over there, well, then you needed to staff and arm US forces to defend those lines. One of my pet peeves is the "accounting game" played when the Mil calculates how much something costs, such as Gulf Storm. A LARGE % of the $ figure given is purest 100% USDA Bullshit. They account for the salaries of every man and woman, all of their bennies, maint costs, training costs, equip costs - the whole shooting match. In fact, they would've paid salaries, bennies, training, and most equip costs ANYWAY - these people didn't just materialize at the Assembly Area ready for transport OOC. Only in the areas of initial sea/air lift, mobile vehicle maintenance and heavier operating schedules, significant live ordinance vs. training rounds, eating in mobile / field circumstances vs. barracks (MRE's DO cost more than bulk-prepared hot meals in the home Company area, I'm sure), home barracks have ongoing maint and camp facilities are "perishable" and don't last all that long, once broken out and employed. In other words, only staging, live fire, and actual use of pre-purchased campaigning materiel are "new" expenses that would not have ensued otherwise. Can you say "bogus"? Hell, the Saudis thought it was funny how judicious the Pentagon / GAO / etc. were in compiling these numbers for "reimbursement" - when they had to pay WhatEver We Said - it was their ASSES on the line - and they knew it. I wonder what we charged them for the Mk-84 Iron Bombs Inventory, the majority of the air-ground ordinance used (smart weapons accounted for less than 10% of A-G expended), that were left over from WW-II, Korea, and Viet Nam? Wanna make a guess that the "value" ascribed to each device was in "present-day" cost of mfg (i.e. the "replacement" cost - though we had no intention of replacing any of the iron bombs!). Ivan Boesky, et al, were wimpy little Boy Scouts when compared to Pentagon accountants!

Now don't take that to mean that I am not in favour of having a strong military.  I mean to keep that Big Stick(tm) handy and ready to swing, but we simply don't NEED to keep it up in the air, already in mid-swing, because frankly, I think our arm is getting bloody tired of holding it up there on a permanent basis.  As a former company commander in basic training used to say (when he'd make somebody take a pencil out and hold it between two fingers straight out in front of them), "that one ounce pencil will get pretty goddamned heavy after you've been holding it up for an hour, recruit!".

Oh! I can feel it, too. As a proud member of the 3-hr "I am a Dying Cockroach" Club, I "get it" - and empathize. My infraction was a simple shoving-match - that got a little out of hand. Long stupid story resulting in 1 week in CC (Corrective Custody - classic Army euphemism) and much extracurricular Company & Battalian behavioral modification testing.

The costs are part 'n parcel with the paranoia policy that said we couldn't trust any of our allies with "the good stuff" - and I'm not talking about iron bombs, of course, but PaveTack, FLIR, Side-Scanning Radar, early implementations of the J-Stars concept (force integration & unified command fed real-time battlefield data), etc. We were the cutting-edge in many areas and didn't really feel comfortable just giving away the farm to people who owed us their freedom from Nazi's, et al, but didin't necessarily care. It's a different list of items and techs, today, but the same reasons and concerns. Sucks, yes, but what is best alternative? Regards training and field maint skills, parts, and facilities you have to pick all or none for an entire theater, such as Europe.

And speaking of Euro, for example, we DID want the battles to occur THERE - not HERE. We preferred to meet the Soviet Tanks in the Fulda Gap in Germay, rather than, say, the San Fernando Valley. I'm not making light of your arguments, just regurgitating stuff I remember from my daze in green. Long ago and far away.

I was only mildly surprised by last night's news report regards the 2 twits who decided to attack Marines holding an exercise on F<mumble> Island just off the Kuwaiti shore. I dunno if they actually KNEW that the vast majority of the 1000 Marines were dry (using blanks or nothing), but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't. "Two Twits in a Toyota Take on Task Force" - reach Paradise. I only wish it had been a Live-Fire exercise and no Marine had been scratched, much less killed by such a pathetic pair.

Agreed.  Hopefully they didn't manage to reproduce before removing themselves from the gene pool.  If only we could convince the rest of them to just start killing each other instead of us...

But then, that's part of my point in removing our involvement from the region.  With no hated Westerners to attack, they'll just revert to their bickering amongst themselves, hopefully with lots and lots of casualties.

Heh, heh - you have the heart of a plan, there! They DO fuck each other when someone like us is not there to fuck with. Hell, they fuck and suck each other ANYWAY in the Arab world. You do know about this, right? It's almost too disgusting to tell, so say yes. I don't wanna go into the details. Gives me the willies.

So I keep my hickory axe handle in the car and hope I'll get 5-6 good swings in should it ever come to that.

Lol.  Hopefully it never does.  But if so, make sure you get at least one or two of them into a state where they can't be identified easily.  Hickory plus Face = Hilarity!

I ALMOST hope I get trapped, momentarily, and find myself in that situation - know what I mean? It would be disgusting to go out at the hands of a mob of dingbats unqualified to scrape gum off the bottom of my boot, but it would be soooo satisfying, after the buildup of frustration over the last 2 years to feel the solid thunk & crunch of Hickory (it even sez on the label that it's North Carolina Hickory - and damned proud of that fact, apparently!) on flesh / bone. You can prolly tell I'm a little wound up these days. Where the fuck is my Prozac? I had it here just a few days - or was it weeks? - ago. Gotta be here somewhere...

I'd agree, except we're talking about Arabs. They WON'T do anything about him.

I don't really care.  Let him invade his neighbors, lob scuds over the borders, kill what remains of his "friends" in the region.  Let them all get up in arms over him, and let them fight.  It doesn't honestly matter WHO wins over there, or if there even ever IS a "winner".  My point is that our presence over there polarizes almost all of them into hating one common foe.  The vaccuum left by our noninterventionism over there would lead to them falling apart and all fighting each other, which I think you and I both agree would be nothing but beneficial for the rest of the world.  If they ever DO sort anything out and stop fighting, whatever's left will be willing to listen to our force if we decide to wield it there.  But as it is, our force there is like swinging a baseball bat at a swarm of gnats.  Sure, we occasionally hit one or two, but the overall effect is somewhat less than intimidating as a whole...

Excellent points - but it's too late, IMHO.

Israel would get some so he could maintain his personal illusion that he is an Arab Model - he perceives himself to be Saladin. THAT, of course, would be his undoing. They would knock the snot out of him - and anyone else dumb enough to climb into the ring... wait - that's all of 'em. Europe would literally explode with righteous indignation as their local Arab immgrants, guest workers, "students", and other pretentious resource-gobbling rabble raised holy hell and (even more ferociously than usual) bit the hand that feeds, shelters, and protects them. Compared to back in '73 - the number of Arabs living in the US and Europe ahs skyrocketed. It would be pretty ugly, but it WOULD identify them for us - all we need is to know who isn't here for the subsidized education and Cable-TV Enhanced Boob Therapy Pkg.

I WOULD love to see them take out their aggressive behavior on each other, but it's far too late, IMHO. Every Friday they get the Weekly Hate Pitch - and we were selected for the honor of Great Satan - long ago. This has been building for more that 20 yrs, already (recall Teheran, the Shah, Rev Guard, Khomeini, et al) and we've just now felt the first full sting of a direct hit. It really IS a "battle joined" and the struggle IS freedom vs. their idea of virtue. The fact that it is unbelievably inane and demonstrable Total Fucking Bullshit makes no difference if they were brought up from birth in it - they can't hear you, wouldn't understand how to think about it and actually judge merit or lack of it, and are implacable. Those born to it (you can tech a child to believe ANYTHING, if you get control of him / her early enough) I can ALMOST forgive - converts are something else, entirely, worthy of a high rank on my list of The World's Stupidest or Most Selfish Humanoid Asswipes. Muhammed Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabar, and Will Smith (Weird Tingly Feeling did he pick for his Idiot Name?) can all kiss my hairy ass. I won't go into what I think of Farakhan, the cocksucker who sells out and lies to "his own people" for "power" and position. Shiteating scumsucking muckraking bottom-dwelling dream-stealing parasite. I don't have a strong opinion about these types of people, but I'll work one up if you request it.

I agree with the methodology. We have to play high-road hardball. The Big Kicker is: we need premium intelligence - unfiltered and unspun. We pretty much know who WE can trust. We need to start demonstrating, by example of our word being kept, that we can BE trusted. We have to develop sources everywhere and continue to aggressively pursue technology. I believe that humint is as valuable as elint; it depends upon each situation encountered which will deliver what is needed to support decision-making.

Hah.  That'll be the day.  I wonder if Colin Powell were president if we could actually start down such a path.  My guts (and I have learned to trust my guts, usually) tell me that he would, if he could ever be convinced to run.  Which my guts also tell me he couldn't.  Oh well.  We can always hope, right?

You nailed it. If only he would break free of whatever it is that he thinks holds him back, unless it's his family and himself - those are legitimate considerations. All else is BS... I would vote for Colin, and actually regain some of the enthusiasm I had back when I was a newly-enfranchised 18 yr old... I miss believing IN things, working towards some sort of positive outcome - defining positives that COULD BE. At present all I feel I do is write Letters to the Editor - which, of course, are all complaints about the negative state of how things ARE. Heavy heavy sigh.

I wonder if anyone who makes decisions in our Govt ever looks or listens to what avg Joes like us have to say...

No.  And that's a pretty big part of the problem.  The other part is that too many average Joes keep voting idiots into office that DON'T listen to what we have to say.  It's because most average Joes are idiots themselves, methinks.

I hold up the subject of my "drivers test" post on HN yesterday as my example.

Oops, I haven't checked those results, yet. I prolly screwed the pooch. Gonna go check, now... Whew! B's across the board - so I didn't step on my dick!

I guess I'm getting more hawkish... My Iraq opinion was best described in a post I did on HN. It may be bad manners to quote yourself, but hell, I've tried rewriting it and making it better, but failed on every attempt. This really does capture my repcise feelings on the topic, given the current circumstances... So, apologies to those who've already seen this. I did make one tiny edit this time to enhance the clarity.
---------------------------------
Re: Being divided on Iraq
I echo this.

Part of me knows that there could be good to come from dealing with the situation with force. But it's anything but automatic - 50 things have to go right for the one good possibility to occur. Those are long odds. But we are taught that we must dare if we are to effect positive change. They leave out the part about what happens if we fail and that, regardless of the outcome, no one will care either way 1.5 generations hence. To quote some insipid Janet (or was it Janna?) Jackson song, "What have you done for me lately?" That this will occur seems to be the true Golden Rule.

Part of me knows that it may not matter, in the end, if we initiate or not. It will come to us, eventually. The real question, IMHO, is what will we face if we act vs. if we wait. Will we be greeted with the nastiest response humans have invented? Gas, Bugs, Big Boom? To err on the side of lesser grief, I guess now is better than later.

Part of me swears the effort will be pearls before swine.
---------------------------------

Yep, that sums it up for me at the moment.

I believe we already do have a reason to take him out. Saddam violated one of the terms that he agreed to after his first ass pounding in the Gulf War. He agreed that he would no longer have weapons of mass destruction within his control.

Because he violated that, we have the right to oust him from his position.

[/b]

You're absolutely correct. UN Resolutions / Security Council Resolutions do not expire unless that is expressly written into them. He has breached more than one, but it only takes one to "authorize" any UN signatory to seek compliance by force.

Why Geo #43 allowed himself to be roped into dealing with the UN, I do not know. He did not need to. Period. The Euros, whining their asses off about the arrogance of the US doing anything unilaterally, was actually a pretty fine show, all by itself. Of course, the most outspoken were those who have major monetary stakes in Saddam's regime remaining in power (Russia, France, Germany) and, of course, Shroeder, the prissy little fuck, was playing local politics getting himself reelected. The between the lines story is that he has sent multiple people to the Bushy Boyz Admin seeking forgiveness, "It was nothing personal, George, only business..." I hope they brought kneepads with them.

Blix, the Chief UN Weapons Inspector has been pretty visible lately, pretending to make decisions regards Iraq and when the Inspectors would go and under what conditions. Bullshit. He is a mere functionary and has Zero decision-making authority. When he was in front of the cameras, he was putting Germany in an ever-deepening hole - especially with the US & UK. As permanent members of the Sec Council, they can override him - and ANYTHING GERMANY EVER WANTS FROM THE UN AGAIN - IN PERPETUITY. I thought, given the hole that Shroeder was already in, that this was an excellent subplot and a classic case of fucking up bigtime. It will take more than a few trips to the woodshed before Germany gets any goodwill votes from the US. I think they figured it out when Colin Powell dropped by and met with Blix. You may recall that last press conference in which Blix's tune, standing there next to Powell and not center-stage, suddenly changed regards when and under what rules inspectors would return to Iraq.

There WAS a decent argument to the effect that Geo #43 needed Congressional approval. Now, with both houses of Congress authorizing Geo to do his thing, that is covered. No more hoops are actually required.

They will still give France and Russia a shot, but Fuck the UN. Fuck the lot of 'em. And Fuck Saddam. Funny side note on the French Supertanker in Yemen. The first word after actual inspection of the damage is that it looks like it WAS a terrorist attack. I wonder if France will still try to play games with the US, now that THEY have been attacked. Funny shit, IMHO, given what hypocrites they are regards almost everything that comes before the UN.

Our Snaq in Iraq, or perhaps the Baghdad Boogaloo, has a launch window of Dec 15 - Feb 1. Wanna run a betting pool on which day? I'll take 3 or 4, just for the helluvit!

Edit: Oh, and for the session time out thingie, I believe it is good for one hour. I am going to change that right now to prevent that from happening again. I didn't think that someone would take over an hour to type something up.

[/b]

Thanx!    You could make that 3-4 hours - and there would probably never be an occurrence of someone having their identity hijacked, but you'll save an untold number of lost session posts - believe me. I often spend 3  hours on ONE response. No shit. I'm not dense, I actually write fast, but I also edit the hell out of everything and try to doc it, if needed, so I look a lot of shit up (google searches, etc.) in real-time. That all takes time to do, read, mix into the response, etc. Sorry, but that IS how I use this venue!

I appreciate your response - not to mention your site! Thanx!
 

Arrrgggghhhh!

I just lost about 2 hours worth of typing in, what I assume, was a session timeout. F U C K !!!

Chris, if this is true, why do we have a session timeout? It's not like anyone is gonna really come along and post as me. Honest. I don't need the protection. If there must be one, then make it ridiculously long, like 3 hrs.

Demo - I'm really pissssssssed - I was doing the 2nd half - the Libertarian Shuffle with you.

Ok. I'm hungry and have to each. I'm been on this PC for 4 hrs.

I'll resume tomorrow.

F u c k.

As for the last part - Ha! You'll never be outgunned by anyone! That would be the day! I'm a hack English mechanic - and you're a goddamned best-selling author! I don't even pretend in the dark that I do more than overwhelm them with sheer volume!

Thanks!  I'm flattered.  

[/b]

Tis' Truth.

I honestly couldn't put anything together that sounded any better than "me too!", so I was satisfied with observing for a change.  It's a lot of work being as big a blowhard as I am; it's nice to take a break and let someone else do the heavy lifting once in a while!  

Now I'm flattered. Methinks the tag-team thing is a good idea. I spent over 5$ USD yesterday just responding to anzac on HN. I THOUGHT this was gonna be cheep - only 1baht/minute = approx 2.25 cents/minute. But I had no idea just how long I took to write /rewrite/edit/redit/yadda3 stuff. Shit! Part of it is how slow these 'Net cafe connections are: at present, this guy is running 8 machines off of a 56K modem connect. It is NOT a very good situation. I think I'll just do this one more reply to you and then bail until he's not so busy. Of course, according to the "plan" ->I<- will be busy later, so this will be it for today!

No, by that I meant "I do not feel comfortable enough with my knowledge on the subject when compared to the level the discussion has reached, so any stand within it I might make would be precarious at best, so I prefer in those situations to abstain."

It comes back to that old adage, "it is better to remain silent and look the fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

I've heard the saying, of course, but it's probably obvious that I haven't the smarts to abide by it. Sheesh!

Now which threads DO you disagree with? Fire away! I'll take notes!

Not many... I agree wholeheartedly with your position on the Saoodis and their politics... I have just never been able to put it into words as well as I have seen you do, primarily because most of my opinions on the subject have been based on hearsay, suspicions, and "news" and "accounts" that I consider suspect as well (i.e., the mass media).

Well, I sure wouldn't wish 'first-hand' knowledge of this place (ref to SaoodiLand, not TL!) on anyone, except an arch-enemy. When various folks here ask me if I know a kickass Network Guy or WebApps Guy or whatever, I'll say "Yes." <preganant pause> "Well, are you gonna tell me about him?" "No." "Oh. Oh!" And they don't ask anymore. The money's great, but the "life" sucks so bad that you hafta be a semi-twisted loner to make it long-term. I read. Tons. That, and the 'Net connection, saves my sanity. And I am semi-twisted - self-educated and raised. And a loner - I've been on my own since 16 and, of these last 34+ yrs, married for 10 and single father for 10 - so I've been alone for the last 14. And it seems to suit me fairly well. When quizzed about getting remarried or similar, I usually respond with, "Darling, I don't want to own it, I just wanna borrow it for awhile. And don't worry, it's an infinitely renewable resource - though while I am on the clock I will definitely try, I won't use it up." That usually puts the kabosh on such talk permanently with that person.  

We are in the unfortunate position of being obligated by treaty to lend support to Israel, aside from that, my firm opinion is that we should let the whole region disintegrate without our involvement.  The barbarians want to live as savages?  Fine.  Let them.  We can get oil from other sources (and primarily do anyway), and we most certainly don't need their sand, 14th century rhetoric, or money.

I've got a real respect for individual Israelis, having worked with about 30 of them up close for a few months way back in my Army daze. To a man, they were serious and intelligent and tough. Impressive is the word. It was back in 1970, but I doubt that their average soldier has changed too much.

This respect acts as a political millstone for me, cuz I've often wanted to say "Fuckit" - wall the whole thing in and just throw arms and ammo over the wall. Last man standing gets the rock farm.

But in my observations, watching the pot boil and boil over, I have decided that the Israelis, regardless of who is leading their Govt, have almost exclusively responded to provocation, not initiated it. I know that many say this is BS or that it's impossible to pick a point on the circle to start keeping score, but that's an illusion in my book: it's not a circle (of violence or whatever) it is a linear timeline. I believe I demonstrate this point somewhat well in my last response to anzac on HN.

As for Iraq, I'm in a difficult, if well-reasoned position.  I am against hostilities towards Iraq at the moment, but that doesn't mean I'm a dove, and that I'm just unilaterally against war across the board.

We need to deal with Hussein and his thugs, but the Bush administration is really going about this the wrong way, and with poor timing and even poorer tact.

You summed it up well. I know this clown DOES have to go. I don't know that the time is now. Until I am convinced that now is THE time, I think they are overreaching and using it to obfuscate - there are other things we should be concerned with... And as immortalized in the Clinton years (a topic I would like to cover with you sometime), "It's the ECONOMY, Stupid!" I believe this applies and Bush & Co. are just trying to stir up patriotic duststorms to get them thru the election. And this means, to me, that if one, just ONE, American serviceman/woman loses his/her life in some Iraq escapade, then Geo & Co. are guilty of manslaughter, if not Murder One.

BTW, I do not subscribe to the idea that there is a major conspiracy in progress to steal my rights. We are too well armed for anyone to actually pull that off permanently. They will only get scraps and crumbs, in spite of the hue and cry. I think our Atty General is a complete dolt, in fact. I don't think Ashcroft would last 15 minutes outside of his ideological bubble / Beltway cocktail party. Dog food.

One thing we most certainly need to do is provide more support for Iran's reform movement and make a solid ally out of them.  Out of all of the Middle Eastern states, Iran to me seems to be the most likely place to find themselves moving out of savagery and into modern, civilized global society, but in order for that to happen, they will need to move and grow as a republic.  They are taking steps in the right direction, but it will likely take a couple of generations before we can really consider them reformed and free.

Amen - you hit it on the head. Iran IS a modern society, youth-heavy demographically, and hungry to throw off "The Guard" - that vestige of the Iranian religious revolution when the mullahs came to power. The political landscape of Iran is very interesting and the main institution they invented to control democracy ("The Council" I think it's called; maybe it's the "Committee") is still there only because the electorate's choice (80+%, I believe), Pres Khatami (sp?), hasn't yet decided to press the issue home and declare it null and void. He's been nibbling around the edges.

In one well-informed article (don't have the link here, of course), they indicate that he is positioning things such that they will have to violate the Constitution to prevent him from reforming and de-toothing them. Such actions would not be tolerated by the youthfull mass of the Iranian voters,  getting more and more impatient with all of the idiotic religious restrictions placed on them. If they were turned loose, they would form a Govt based on the US, a Constitutional Republic - and become the most progressive country on the planet.

Their demographics would certainly give them a good shot at it. Islamic crap is amazing - consider that you  are not allowed to date at all, etc. - in effect, you do not get laid until your arranged marriage, and the req's for that mean you will be well into your professional career (if your family isn't filthy rich) at 25-29 before you can afford it. Think about that - and the wiring that sez "NO fucking WAY am I gonna WAIT that LONG!" Poses a serious problem for the religious squirrels - in ALL Islamic countries, whether Shia or Sunni doesn't matter - same for both. Implosion is what is going to happen in all of these Arab and Persion (to cover Iran and the fact that they are NOT Arabs!) countries. Because of sex. Simple as that.

Iran Timeline: The Islamic weenies take over. Ban everything, including evil birth-control, and then 25-30 years later they find themselves contronted with a self-educated literate society with a HUGE bubble of young people who are not very religious (knowledge of the Shia version of Islam is important here), certainly not blinded by it, and don't remember any of the actual "bad" aspects of the West, but do see a shining future in progress. And, because of the wiring, they want some serious reform regards dating and marriage, et al.

How's that for poetic / biological justice?  

Because of that, we need to get in on the ground floor with Iran, and form a solid, trustworthy alliance with them NOW, not as a forceful imperialist military power, but as one free society greets and welcomes another burgeoning free society with open arms, a sort of pat on the Iranian shoulder and saying "hey, we were really hoping you guys would 'get it' eventually... welcome to civilization!  We were pulling for you and we're very glad you're taking steps towards enlightenment!".

Amen. They can come sit at the big table with the adults as soon as they "get it."

Unfortunately, the way things are looking, Iran's reformation might just as easily topple into a pit of retarded, witless religious fanaticism and barbarism, particularly if we keep up all this sabre-rattling in their direction.

If we can make a strong ally out of Iran's future free society, we can basically say FUCK the Saoodis and everyone else in the region that wants to behave like a fricken three year old.  Want to punch your neighbors and steal their toys?  Fine.  Go ahead.  We'll keep open trade status with Iran and simply shake our heads at you.  And by the way, if you so much as spit in the direction of Iran or our other allies in Europe, we'll take ALL of your toys away and put you in the corner without supper, you little brats.

I'm not worried about them - they want OUT from under the mullahs.Only Khatami's (sp?) slow-motion approach to throwing off the mullahs gives me and degree of pause. Beautiful imagery! Perfect conclusion.

We HAVE to let them fight it out and then deal with whomever is left with swift, firm, decisive force, otherwise they'll never learn.  If we get involved in every single petty dispute, we make nothing but enemies by our actions.

If we stay completely out of it, they will point the finger at us for our inaction, but that's better than being able to hold up a dead baby while screaming about a US rocket that hit a daycare or something.  Let them hold up that dead baby and scream about an IRAQI rocket, or a JORDANIAN rocket, or a SYRIAN rocket, and let us just let them work it out of their system.  Whatever is left will likely be worth a fight for us, not this petty two-bit dictator shit that isn't even worth our time.

</rant>

This is the old damned if we do / damned if we don't dilemma - and it lead me to start quoting Randy Newman's "Political Science" tune. I, like you , am fed up with this absurd requirement on the US that we help everyone and, yet, not interfere in any way. Using our Foreign Aid to influence events in our national interest is the name of the game - everyone does it, and I mean everyone, but suddenly (as the only "Superpower") we are not allowed to? Fuck 'em.

Often, it's our misappropriated largesse that allows the shitheads in foreign Govts to remain in power, simultaneously thrashing us for not solving all of their problems while demanding more aid. Consider the riots in Cairo a few weeks ago when the news was "released" (read: prejudicial rant by an Egyptian Minister - and Mubarek must've approved it) that the US had turned down the Egyptian request to increase US aid to them. We did Not say we would stop it entirely or even cut back, we just did not agree to increase it. There was rioting in the streets and demon-fucking-strations about Evil America. So. Would it be any fucking worse if we said, "Fuck you. You get NOTHING until you become a bona-fide democracy and learn how to behave!" Probably, but not by much. I am getting closer and closer to the extreme on this, ala the Political Science lyrics. We are not going to be allowed to play by the same rules as everyone else. On top of that, even though we are playing politely and trying, we will still be bashed and short-changed and cheated and fucked over.

Mebbe it's time to either withdraw, or pull out a big stick and respond in kind. Hard to call and hard to do, given the automatic brakes applied in our political system to any real radical change. Do we play Woodrow Wilson - or Teddy Roosevelt? Do we have any other choices? Does it matter, if the various factions can damp or stop the change anyway?

This may be where you and I can do the antagonistic thing. I don't think we agree on this last little antagonistic bit I threw out there. Do you carry a Big Stick, Demo? (Ha!) Go ahead and answer if you dare! That's a classic "Do you still beat your wife?" question for one who doesn't believe we should ever use our military might to get what we want without being attacked first.

Did too! Did not! Etc.

I sure would like to engage you more often. Your Libertarian stand and your statement to the effect that the whores (Demo's - sorry, my term for 'em - and Pub's) had stolen your country certainly had the ring of truth and conviction to it. I don't remember precisely which / where I read it, but it sure as hell struck me as a war-cry worthy of a stand-alone thread. I happen to think that almost all of our Original (read: created by Continental Congress) Institutions are quite wonderful, but are infested with self-serving vermin, at times. Once in awhile we have to come along, get pissed off, and clean one or two of them out! So I definitely separate the Office from the Officeholder, and give respect to the former even when I consider the latter to be a total ass.

Keep that up and I don't think you and I will ever engage tete-a-tete, Paco.  There can be no sincere debate if we both constantly agree with each other.  We can, on the other hand see if anyone around here is willing to pick a fight with us and tag-team 'em... though in all honesty I don't see that happening any time soon.  Chris is going to be one bad dude someday when it comes to forum arguments, I think... but in the mean time let's try to be good rolemodels for him and others that are watching.

Also, I think if we're not careful, people might think that I am just an alternate login for you or vise versa... we're a bit too close on a number of things (and how we express them)... I think we'll both need to make a conscious effort to avoid sounding too much alike!  

Oh yeah? Take That! and THAT! Oof! Pow! Splat! Etc.<BEG>

Ok, enuff, I know.
<30>

Communication is fine Paco. No worries.

Make sense?

Yup. I won't rehash old hash unless you want it... So you're SAVED!!!
 

Heyyyy.... Paco's here!  Sweet!

 I was just tossing around the idea of PMing you over on HN to invite you over here to help me balance the place out a bit with at least one more heavyweight among the featherweights that are all over the place over here.  Nice timing, and great thread to make your first appearance in.  I was in a particularly cranky mood that day, but I think I probably would have jumped on this one regardless...[/b]
I don't pretend to know the flavor here - only browsed it for a few days (since I saw your reference to it, in fact), but thanks for the invite! I have seen some familiar monikers, so I didn't feel like it was Mars, but the n00b should always tred semi-lightly! And this WAS the only thread I was interested in checking into - it seems politics is low on the agenda hereabouts. - and that's not a bad thing, per se!

As for your posts over on HN, Paco, don't take my silence to be disapproval.  Your posts on the Middle East are far, far more informed and well-reasoned than anything I could scrape together, and while I try to keep abreast of events, and while I agree with your stance on the situation almost entirely, I admit I am not in what I would consider to be a "comfortable arguing position" to even interject any of my opinions into the threads that you have been debating in (lest I end up like anzac over there... outgunned, outmaneuvered, and out-and-out in over my head).
As for the last part - Ha! You'll never be outgunned by anyone! That would be the day! I'm a hack English mechanic - and you're a goddamned best-selling author! I don't even pretend in the dark that I do more than overwhelm them with sheer volume!

Regards your first sentence - I am more than happy to hear this - I wondered why you (and Lacerda and Joe Sixpack and others) hadn't jumped in. That wildman, Pbsaurus, did - and he was just lightening the tension! I didn't think my take could be 180 deg from yours, anyway. And since I had read many eloquent and reasoned posts of yours, I did (do) hope you would weigh in and apply some of that magic to the threads. I know I'm myopic and only engage on certain topics, but like you said / implied, I don't always feel I'm auto-qualified just because I have a keyboard in front of me. Picky picky, eh?

I would, if it's comfortable over here on GTG (How DO you guys refer to this site?), like to understand your reference to a "comfortable arguing position" - not to pry, but that's an intriguing tidbit and I want to understand. Your main squeeze isn't a Lebanese Princess or something and hates that MoFo DeGaillo prick, right? <G> If that's the case, flame me! Gotta pay attention to priorities - and that's the ultimate priority... right behind breathing!

I don't like to enter debates I don't have a shot at winning, and since I actually agree with you over there (in the "Iraq" thread), I just sound like a piping little "me too!" whenever I compose a post, so I always end up deleting anything I've written in response to yours....
Okay. Well, I self-edit constantly so second-guessing you would be stupid, but I doubt that you would've done anything but bring the quality up and clarify my muddles.

Now which threads DO you disagree with? Fire away! I'll take notes!

Good to be here and, if Chris doesn't get fed up and whack me, I hope to liven up the pol forum a little. I sure would like to engage you more often. Your Libertarian stand and your statement to the effect that the whores (Demo's - sorry, my term for 'em - and Pub's) had stolen your country certainly had the ring of truth and conviction to it. I don't remember precisely which / where I read it, but it sure as hell struck me as a war-cry worthy of a stand-alone thread. I happen to think that almost all of our Original (read: created by Continental Congress) Institutions are quite wonderful, but are infested with self-serving vermin, at times. Once in awhile we have to come along, get pissed off, and clean one or two of them out! So I definitely separate the Office from the Officeholder, and give respect to the former even when I consider the latter to be a total ass.

Uh, oh, there I go again. Back on-topic, it's good to be here, GTG runs a shitload faster than HN, and I'm glad that I haven't (yet) stepped on my dick! A semi-fresh start!
 

Hey Paco! Good to see ya.

I like forum-hopping myself. It's a nice information overload for those days when you just can't seem to get enough.

Actually, its just that some days this forum is slow, and I end up posting a lot on HN instead.

There aren't many topics in the politcal area I would respond to - except this one, of course!

Thanx for the welcome - I thought Dark Shade was gonna shoot me down upon entry - n00bie dog that I am!

So, let's liven this forum up a bit. The whole site sure as hell loads faster than HN!