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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[dur-ril]

yet do most of the population live in better conditions, are better educated and have a better health sistem in Cuba or your country?

Live in better conditions?  USA
Better educated?  HA!  You point to one of the USA's biggest failures -  a failure because it is controlled by the state rather than being allowed to happen naturally through the capitalistic mechanism - as an example of a USA failure?  Sure... I'll give you this one.  The USA has failed the citizenry in this attempt to provide for them using socialism as a model.
Health system?  I'd rather get sick here.  They may have state provided health care and they may have more doctors to patients, but here, if I want to pay more for a better doctor, I can.  I like that option.

You know what i just realised? i'm arguing with the product of a society that is controled by their goverment in such a way that they don't even realise it. So i'm gonna let you think whatever you want, i have friends that fall for that "land of freedom" story and if i can't have a reasonable discussion with them, then i sure can't have it with you

[BizB]

Joeri Gagarin was the first man in space, from the Sovjets.

Didn't answer my question.

Japan is very close to the US.

Japan is not socialist.  
Japanese communitarian capitalistic model has the government taking on a considerable portion of the risk of capitalistic ventures.  However, there is a significant capitlistic element to their economy.

The following socialist economies produce more food per year than the USA ________________________.

China

Link please.

The following socialist economies have been more successful in times of war than the  USA __________________________.

The SovjetUnion, in WW2. They turned the face of war in Stalingrad, and they defeated Hitler, not America. Fact is, they could not have done it without eachother.

Let's give you that one.  One socialistic economy which we spent into bankruptcy and is no longer functional was able to assist us in WWII.

The following socialist economies have furthered technology at a faster pace than the USA _____________________.

Japan

See above.

The following socialist economies have more people trying to get into their country than does the USA __________________.

I don't know about that, and neither do you.

We're not called the melting pot for nothing.

Also, lots of your lines are about surface area and citizens, making the US a big country with many advantages in your criteria.

I'm sorry.... how did we become so large with population?

[BizB]

You know what i just realised? i'm arguing with the product of a society that is controled by their goverment in such a way that they don't even realise it. So i'm gonna let you think whatever you want, i have friends that fall for that "land of freedom" story and if i can't have a reasonable discussion with them, then i sure can't have it with you

Weak.

[TeraHammer]

i've edited the food a while ago

[BizB]

I saw that.  Thanks.  I did a quote and then went off and did some home-owner stuff and came back to finish my reply.

I'd love to know what they consider "go hungry" in their 1 in 10 figure.

[dcrog]

I'd love to know what they consider "go hungry" in their 1 in 10 figure.

People like the Olsen twins.

[dur-ril]

I have a question:

which is the country with the biggest external debt?

[BizB]

As a  percent of GDP?

[dur-ril]

As a  percent of GDP?

i just asked which ows the most, could i have been more explicit?!

[TeraHammer]

Joeri Gagarin was the first man in space, from the Sovjets.

Didn't answer my question.

Didnt asnwer you question, indeed. However, I did give the counterexample which makes your question obsolete. Who cares if Neil stepped the moon if people are hungry? Moreover, you have a technology question following.

Japan is very close to the US.

Japan is not socialist.  
Japanese communitarian capitalistic model has the government taking on a considerable portion of the risk of capitalistic ventures.  However, there is a significant capitlistic element to their economy.

Vague stuff. Japan grew strong in and is still in a socialist culture, with the government taking care of their citizens. For example, the care of the Japan elderly: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12462371&dopt=Citation, whereas in the US old people have to do what they have spared in their life. That is what this discussion is about, taking care of people who can't take care of themselves and not HOW the country makes the money.

Also, lots of your lines are about surface area and citizens, making the US a big country with many advantages in your criteria.

I'm sorry.... how did we become so large with population?

Because your 53 (not sure) states are united and due to capalitism the American Dream people attracts. Take for example Luxembourg and the Oekraine. Luxembourg is richer than the Oukraine. However, food production in the Oekraine is much higher than in Luxembourgh just because there is more surface and are more citizens there. Conclusion: we will have to find a suitable way inwhich we can compare it with in an honest way. I can put it this way:

Where is more poverty? In the US or in North Korea? In the US.
Where are more people hungry? In the US or in North Korea? In the US.
In which country are the most guns? US. etc etc etc.

Since the US is big, it has more technology, but also more poverty. It are the AVERAGES we must look to say something sensible.


Since western Civilization has had the greatest influence on history, capitalism is more to be seen in countries with wellfare. But capitalism in America has its downsides, which you cannot ignore. Moreover, socialist countries like Japan prove that "The American Way" is not "The Way to Wellfare". Governments with funds for their citizens can be equally, if not more, succesfull as the US at certain aspects.

These aspects must be weighed in a sensible way offcourse.

[TeraHammer]

As a  percent of GDP?

i just asked which ows the most, could i have been more explicit?!

See final line above post. Discussion is useless with real statistics with good weighings.

[BizB]

of course.

Telling me that someone else was first in space didn't make my question obsolete.  You keep bringing up this hunger thing.  The "poor" in the USA are better off than the majority of the population of the world.

Comparing how the Japanese care for the elderly to the USA is not an apples to apples situation.  The cultural differences in attitude regarding the elderly are HUGE.

i just asked which ows the most, could i have been more explicit?!

Yes.  Asking such a simplistic question about a complex issue is trolling.  You may as well ask me which continent has the most people that freeze to death.  Surely Africa would be the answer.  Right?

[dur-ril]

ok, since the first one was no so well recieved i've got a second question:

Well, i changed my mind, not a question , just something to say:

Watch out for China, it will be the next US and it won't take long

[BizB]

ok, since the first one was no so well recieved i've got a second question:

Well, i changed my mind, not a question , just something to say:

Watch out for China, it will be the next US and it won't take long

Agreed except China will do more empire building.

It will happen within 5 years.

Hammer, you have a PM.

[dur-ril]

ok, since the first one was no so well recieved i've got a second question:

Well, i changed my mind, not a question , just something to say:

Watch out for China, it will be the next US and it won't take long

Agreed except China will do more empire building.

It will happen within 5 years.

and it is socialist, isn't it, of course it stuck to the perestoika but still…

[TeraHammer]

of course.

Telling me that someone else was first in space didn't make my question obsolete.

Yes it does. It shows that the US can do one thing, while other, different countries with different societies, can excel in other aspects.

You keep bringing up this hunger thing.  The "poor" in the USA are better off than the majority of the population of the world.

Ok forget hunger, allthough it is a suitable weighing for prosperity of a country. How do you define "poor" Discussion is useless without a proper definition and black white statistic.

Comparing how the Japanese care for the elderly to the USA is not an apples to apples situation.  The cultural differences in attitude regarding the elderly are HUGE.

Well that's the social and the capitalistic difference, isnt it? Isnt it?

i just asked which ows the most, could i have been more explicit?!

Yes.  Asking such a simplistic question about a complex issue is trolling.  You may as well ask me which continent has the most people that freeze to death.  Surely Africa would be the answer.  Right?

[/quote]
That is bullshit. It is just the same as the questions with which you wanted to show America's supremacy a couple of previous posts.

[BizB]

Don't you think that putting a man on the moon is a far cry from an orbit?

Re: Japanese elderly - No, I think that the Japanese would care for their elderly and treat them with great respect even if it were a purely capitalisitc economy.

Defining poor... good question.  The rule of thumb - using a percent of the average income - is hard to extend worldwide because, as we've demonstrated, the US economy and average income is at the upper end of the scale.  Besides, the government DOES take care of the "poor" here.  There is no reason why anyone should/would ever go hunrgry except for maybe pride or ignorance.

Re: Bullshit - If I had asked just ONE question of a similar vein, you could point that out as such.  However, I used several questions to demonstrate America's dominance in a wide range of areas.

[Crystalmonkey]

of course.

Telling me that someone else was first in space didn't make my question obsolete.

Yes it does. It shows that the US can do one thing, while other, different countries with different societies, can excel in other aspects.

Doing something first and doing something well are two different things.

You keep bringing up this hunger thing.  The "poor" in the USA are better off than the majority of the population of the world.

Ok forget hunger, allthough it is a suitable weighing for prosperity of a country. How do you define "poor" Discussion is useless without a proper definition and black white statistic.

The poverty line in the US is defined for the year 2005:

 2005 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Persons in
Family Unit    48 Contiguous
States and D.C.    Alaska    Hawaii
1    $ 9,570 $11,950   $11,010
2    12,830    16,030    14,760
3    16,090    20,110    18,510
4    19,350    24,190    22,260
5    22,610    28,270    26,010
6    25,870    32,350    29,760
7    29,130    36,430    33,510
8    32,390    40,510    37,260
For each additional
person, add     3,260     4,080     3,750

(Taken from: http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/05poverty.shtml)

Comparing how the Japanese care for the elderly to the USA is not an apples to apples situation.  The cultural differences in attitude regarding the elderly are HUGE.

Well that's the social and the capitalistic difference, isnt it? Isnt it?

Not entirely. While it is certainly probable that capitalism influenced our opinion of the elderly, there are a lot of factors involved, like all of the different cultures being brought together, all of the different religions, and all of the different viewpoints.

Also, Japan is a VERY big export culture. A lot of what we learn is what they export to us, unless we happen to live there.

i just asked which ows the most, could i have been more explicit?!

Yes.  Asking such a simplistic question about a complex issue is trolling.  You may as well ask me which continent has the most people that freeze to death.  Surely Africa would be the answer.  Right?

That is bullshit. It is just the same as the questions with which you wanted to show America's supremacy a couple of previous posts.[/quote]

Kind of. His question, the guy that BizB quoted, was about something that would obviously point out the US, because they of course spend the most money. However, something that you have to realize, is that debt is very realitive.

If I make $150,000 a year, a $100,000 debt is going to hurt for sure.

If I make 500 million dollars a year, on the other hand, that $100,000 is chump change.


I have some more to add, but I just want to see what the response is before I drop some Adam Smith on the conversation.

[TeraHammer]

Don't you think that putting a man on the moon is a far cry from an orbit?

Yes, it is a large leap. But, in history, in the Cold War, this event had its influence and was a huge blow for the US. Did you know current Russians still adore Gagarin?

Re: Japanese elderly - No, I think that the Japanese would care for their elderly and treat them with great respect even if it were a purely capitalisitc economy.

Hmm I disagree there. But we may never know.

There is no reason why anyone should/would ever go hunrgry except for maybe pride or ignorance.

I believe you are mistaken there. There is still (relative to other rich countries) lots of poverty in the US, resulting in hunger.

Re: Bullshit - If I had asked just ONE question of a similar vein, you could point that out as such.  However, I used several questions to demonstrate America's dominance in a wide range of areas.

I pointed out that some of your questions were not right because they didnt take in consideration what a big country can achieve in contrary to a small country, which can have a bigger wellfare.

[BizB]

I mentioned several things - None of them were respective of order.  First, second, last... the USA is the best at each.

I didn't bring up income as a measure of poverty because I could, in theory, take $100,000 USD to India and live very comfortably for the rest of my days.  You have to use those incomes as a percentage of the national average income for similar size households.  Even then, it's not apples to apples.

[TeraHammer]

I mentioned several things - None of them were respective of order.  First, second, last... the USA is the best at each.

I didn't bring up income as a measure of poverty because I could, in theory, take $100,000 USD to India and live very comfortably for the rest of my days.  You have to use those incomes as a percentage of the national average income for similar size households.  Even then, it's not apples to apples.

Man you type fast!
Export of food, for example, says absolutely nothing.

[hackess]

Anyone mind if I move this to the Political Opinions forum?

I didn't think so.

Carry on with the wailing and gnashing of teeth. I'll be over there--> waiting for Demosthenes to show up.

[BizB]

/me casts a level 3 summon demo spell

/me casts a level 3 summon ivan spell

[Vespertine]

/me casts a level 3 summon demo spell

/me casts a level 3 summon ivan spell

I'm neither of those two.  Your summoning spell misfired.

TeraHammer, let me pose this question to you.  I work my ass off day in and day out.  There are things in life that I miss out on because I need to be at work that day.  Jill is fully capable of work, but chooses not to work, and she does choose to keep popping out kids.  I made my choice and Jill made hers.  Why on earth should I have to pay to feed and clothe Jill and her kids?  How is that a fair and just system of reward (or punishment)?

[sociald1077]

Lets translate your last sentence, shall we? "Don't come storm in and complain, you look like an American"
Well well. Look here who is hypocritical...

i·ro·ny  


         1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
         2. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
         3. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

         1. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
         2. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.

How the hell did i post that if i was sound asleep?