Topic: the shrinking territories of homosexual marriage (Read 35756 times)

Demosthenes · « **Reply #50 on:** January 24, 2007, 06:57:37 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus on January 24, 2007, 06:53:50 PM

Agreed, but by denying them the vote is infringing on their liberty.

I think people who are that malicious toward the liberty of others should not have the ability to decide our fates politically.

That's right, I've become a fascist libertarian.

Quote

In other news Ron Paul is running in '08.

"Dr. No" himself, eh? Well, he's not perfect, but he's a damn sight better than anyone else out there. I have to wonder, with his vocal positions on things and his voting record, how do the Republicans even accept him as one of them?

pbsaurus · « **Reply #51 on:** January 24, 2007, 07:09:12 PM »

I've been wondering that myself for years. I'm curious to see if they even let him participate in the primary season debates.

12AX7 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 24, 2007, 09:45:16 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus on January 24, 2007, 04:00:07 PM

So it would be nice if the legal union were called something else, civil union, entity bonding, Fred, etc.

Would I be invited to the Fredding?
With this ring, I thee Fred.
Fredded Bliss.
Fredlock. <--- hehe! Sounds like a hairstyle!
"Check out mah fredlocks, man..."

Demosthenes · « **Reply #53 on:** January 24, 2007, 10:58:14 PM »

Man.... would you look at the size of the Fredding party? And check out the bride. I can't believe she chose to try and pull off wearing a white Fredding dress.

I can't wait for the Fredding reception.

milifist · « **Reply #54 on:** January 24, 2007, 11:14:35 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on January 24, 2007, 06:57:37 PM

"Dr. No" himself, eh? Well, he's not perfect, but he's a damn sight better than anyone else out there. I have to wonder, with his vocal positions on things and his voting record, how do the Republicans even accept him as one of them?

They don't. He agrees to vote Republican on administrative issues in exchange for committee positions. Republican leadership has consistently opposed him in the primary races, and it is a pretty good bet that the RNC won't be funding his campaign. Other than refusing to provide funds, there isn't much the party can do to stop him from running as a Republican.

12AX7 · « **Reply #55 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:54:42 AM »

Ah, ...to be Fred in wholly acrimony...

dcrog · « **Reply #56 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:45:01 AM »

"They left the reception early to begin their Fredding night."

Kinda gives it a totally different perspective.

12AX7 · « **Reply #57 on:** January 25, 2007, 11:21:40 AM »

Quote from: dcrog on January 25, 2007, 10:45:01 AM

"They left the reception early to begin their Fredding night."

Which happened to fall on a Frednesday . . .

BizB · « **Reply #58 on:** January 25, 2007, 11:30:16 AM »

Quote from: 12AX7 on January 25, 2007, 11:21:40 AM

Which happened to fall on a Frednesday . . .

In the middle of Freduary.

Evonus · « **Reply #59 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:10:37 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on January 24, 2007, 06:28:40 PM

Or preventing gay couples from adopting.

This is the one place where I have to disagree. I support homosexual marriage, because quite frankly, I don't think it's any of my business what these people do in their spare time, or if they decide to be together. However, if you have the life of a third party(the child) there is another factor that has to be considered, and so this definatly is not the same situation.

BizB · « **Reply #60 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:19:47 PM »

Yeah! Clearly kids are more likely to grow up gay if they're raised by gay parents. And child molesters! And people that can't speel, "definitely"!

Evonus · « **Reply #61 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:24:06 PM »

Quote from: BizB on January 25, 2007, 03:19:47 PM

Yeah! Clearly kids are more likely to grow up gay if they're raised by gay parents. And child molesters! And people that can't speel, "definitely"!

I never said that. I don't believe they'll grow up gay, or as social miscreants, but at the same time, kids do pick on each other for the different backgrounds they came from, and I think the child will grow up as an outcast and be constantly harassed, because at this current state of time, homosexuality is unfortunately not accepted.

BizB · « **Reply #62 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:27:23 PM »

You're kidding, right?

pbsaurus · « **Reply #63 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:42:50 PM »

I know plenty of gay adoptive parents here in the Bay Area (also a few biological parents thanks to IVF/Surrogacy, plus the biological parents who left they're man/woman marriages because they were gay). The older offspring that I know are pretty well adjusted and most are heterosexual and haven't had difficulty having a gay parent or parents.

Do you have any links to studies that have been done in this area or are you just talking out your ass as usual?

12AX7 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:47:40 PM »

We SO need an L 0 L thread, too.

wait... I can start a thread...

BizB · « **Reply #65 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:51:20 PM »

Quote from: 12AX7 on January 25, 2007, 03:47:40 PM

We SO need an L 0 L thread, too.

wait... I can start a thread...

HECTAR HECTAR!

Evonus · « **Reply #66 on:** January 25, 2007, 09:15:14 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus on January 25, 2007, 03:42:50 PM

I know plenty of gay adoptive parents here in the Bay Area (also a few biological parents thanks to IVF/Surrogacy, plus the biological parents who left they're man/woman marriages because they were gay). The older offspring that I know are pretty well adjusted and most are heterosexual and haven't had difficulty having a gay parent or parents.

Do you have any links to studies that have been done in this area or are you just talking out your ass as usual?

I'm talking mainly from just experience in knowing people. I'm sure I can find a study or something, give me till this weekend when I get some time to go hunting.

Agent_Tachyon · « **Reply #67 on:** January 26, 2007, 12:28:56 AM »

I wonder if that gerbil story is true.

Evonus · « **Reply #68 on:** January 27, 2007, 02:51:40 AM »

Quote

Adoption and Same-Sex Couples: Basics

Gay men and lesbians have always adopted, although their sexual orientation may not always have been in the open. Today, openly gay and lesbian men and women are being considered more seriously as potential adoptive parents. This change has been aided by the increase in the number of gay and lesbian biological parents in the United States.

In 1976, there were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents; as of 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have a gay or lesbian parent. And, between 8 and 10 million children are being raised in gay and lesbian households. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Adoption and Foster Care Analysis Reporting System (AFCARS), estimated in 1999 that there were approximately 547,000 children in foster care in the United States, of which 117,000 are legally free and therefore eligible for adoption. But, in 1997, there were qualified adoptive families (including single parents) available for only twenty percent of these children. It is also estimated that approximately ten percent of the U.S. population - or 25 million individuals - are homosexual.

Based on these increasing numbers, can gay and lesbian individuals be realistically and automatically excluded from consideration as potential adoptive parents?

Despite this increase in gay and lesbian parenting, social workers may have reservations when considering gay adoptive parents for a child. They might wonder how the children will be raised, and how they will feel about themselves and their parents. Will they be embarrassed because they have two mothers or two fathers, or because their single mother dates women or their unmarried father has a boyfriend? Will their friends tease them? And most important, how will having been raised by gay or lesbian parents affect them as they grow into adulthood?

The Status of Gay and Lesbian Parenting

Defining the family structure of gay and lesbian parents can be a challenging task. The most common type of homosexual household is step or blended families. These are gay and lesbian parents who had their biological children in a former heterosexual relationship, then "came out", and created a new family with another partner. Other types of family structures include single gay or lesbian parents and couples having children together. Both of these family types may be created through adoption, but more frequently reproductive technology is being utilized.

There has been some research on biological families with gay and lesbian parents. This research focuses mainly on children born to donor-inseminated lesbians or those raised by a parent, once married, who is now living a gay lifestyle. While research on these situations has not addressed all the issues relevant to adoptive parenting; this information is invaluable for social workers struggling with difficult decisions, for gay men and lesbians who want to be parents, for their families and friends, and for anyone seeking information on this nontraditional type of family.

Unfortunately, the effects on children of being raised by lesbian and gay adoptive parents cannot be predicted. The number of homosexuals who have adopted is unknown, and because of the controversial nature of the issue, their children are often reluctant to speak out. Testimony of children who have grown up in gay households may turn out to provide the best information about the results of gay parenting.

Research studies, often conducted by individuals or organizations with a vested interest in the outcome, are contradictory. Studies linked to conservative political and religious groups show negative effects on children of gay and lesbian parents; while studies which support homosexual parenting are said to reflect the bias of those who are themselves gay or who support gay rights. Clearly, what are needed are definitive studies that would follow larger numbers of children over a long period of time. That research, when completed, will provide more definitive information for the debate.

Here, I found one article, I'll find others. Clearly this article shows that my concern on how the parents status will affect the child in his/her social circle is a concern shared by social workers. It also says that how kids turn out or are effected by this sort of situation is not well documented at the current time. I bolded the parts I considered to be important, but you may read the entire thing if you want.

Now, this doesn't prove my opinion to be correct or anything; however, it legitimizes my opinion as a legitimate concern, because I know BizB and PB were acting as if it were laughable and a negligible matter. I just found this on a quick sweep on google. I'm sure I can find more, and I probably will, but I just figured I'd throw this out there for now.

Source: http://family.findlaw.com/adoption/same-sex-adoption/same-sex-adoption-intro.html

Agent_Tachyon · « **Reply #69 on:** January 27, 2007, 03:00:27 AM »

Even if gay parents made the kids somehow turn out gay, I'd support that. More gay people would mean more potential parents adopting up all them kiddies going to waste today, and that would exponentially decrease the over-population problem. I'm not sure if it's anywhere near this major, but it's an interesting notion.

12AX7 · « **Reply #70 on:** January 27, 2007, 03:38:47 AM »

More of any of us is not a good idea; gay, straight, bi, try, or dry.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #71 on:** January 28, 2007, 11:02:43 AM »

Evonus, kids get teased about everything. You might as well say people with big noses shouldn't reproduce, because it makes it more likely that their kids will have super schnozes ripe for the mockin'.

I think whatever potential harm there is from being teased about your gay parents (and who cares about getting teased by kids except for wieners and nerds? Kids are stupid sissypants) is far less than the problems that arise when you get shitty parents.

By eliminating gay adoptive parents from the mix, you're removing a bunch of people who specifically wanted to raise children, and had to work much harder for the privilege than the rest of the population.

This is unsupported opinion speaking, but I think teased kids with loving families are far better equipped for adulthood than unmocked kids with shitty/absent parents.

"Ha ha, your parents are men who kiss each other!"
"Yeah, but your dad's in jail and probably has sex with other men anyway and your mom is dead!"
"Oh...oh yeah...let's play trucks!"

Evonus · « **Reply #72 on:** January 28, 2007, 02:39:01 PM »

Quote from: Lacerda on January 28, 2007, 11:02:43 AM

Evonus, kids get teased about everything. You might as well say people with big noses shouldn't reproduce, because it makes it more likely that their kids will have super schnozes ripe for the mockin'.

There is a different degree to it though. I mean there is a difference between a few demeaning comments and being a social outcast, and I have witnessed people being utterly harassed for this nonstop. I too know what it's like to be harassed (not for this), but I grew up in a rich neighborhood, and went to a middle school with mostly wealthy kids, and I grew up poor, and I got no end to it. No one would even associate with me, and it's very demoralizing, and I only had to go through it for 3 years. I knew people that had to deal with it because of their parents situation all through school, and quite honestly that sucks pretty badly.

Quote

I think whatever potential harm there is from being teased about your gay parents (and who cares about getting teased by kids except for wieners and nerds? Kids are stupid sissypants) is far less than the problems that arise when you get shitty parents.

By eliminating gay adoptive parents from the mix, you're removing a bunch of people who specifically wanted to raise children, and had to work much harder for the privilege than the rest of the population.

This is unsupported opinion speaking, but I think teased kids with loving families are far better equipped for adulthood than unmocked kids with shitty/absent parents.

"Ha ha, your parents are men who kiss each other!"
"Yeah, but your dad's in jail and probably has sex with other men anyway and your mom is dead!"
"Oh...oh yeah...let's play trucks!"

This is definitely a valid counter point, and I see where you are coming from, but I just don't think that society is ready for homosexual couples to adopt. If homosexuality were more accepted and wasn't the "evil of evils" right now, I would be for it. But we don't live in an ideal world and I think we need to worry about where we are right now (the intermediate step) and that we need to work on making homosexuality more accepted, but until it is accepted we can't act like it is.

Vespertine · « **Reply #73 on:** January 28, 2007, 06:45:10 PM »

Quote from: Evonus on January 28, 2007, 02:39:01 PM

<snip>
If homosexuality were more accepted and wasn't the "evil of evils" right now, I would be for it. But we don't live in an ideal world and I think we need to worry about where we are right now (the intermediate step) and that we need to work on making homosexuality more accepted, but until it is accepted we can't act like it is.

The only way for any of us to make it more socially acceptable is act as though it is acceptable. It's called leading by example and it can have a very positive (or negative if you're setting a bad example) effect. We can and should act in a way that expresses our beliefs. If I believe that homosexuality is acceptable, it is my responsibility to show that through my actions. Nothing will become "more acceptable" if people just ignore that thing because they're waiting for the rest of the world to catch up. And keeping good and loving people from becoming parents because "other kids will make fun" just doesn't work for me. With very fewexceptions, a child that is reared with loving and supportive parents, regardless of the parents' sexual orientation, will be raised with the mental and emotional tools that will turn them into strong and resourceful adults.

BizB · « **Reply #74 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:41:31 PM »

By Evonus way of thinking, blacks shouldn't be allowed to marry whites, either.

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Author Topic: the shrinking territories of homosexual marriage (Read 35756 times)

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