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  • (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)
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Author Topic: Nuclear Deterrence  (Read 7137 times)

ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2010, 01:49:32 PM »

This. The cat's already been let out of the bag (nuclear weapons) and there's nothing we can do about it. And trying to get rid of our defense while hopefully pretending the WMD's will suddenly stop existing is NOT the answer at all. No wonder other countries are laughing at us. I'd laugh too. I just hope that they know that we don't support our presidents retarded decisions. Wait a second, why did we vote him into office then...

You know, if you already believe that Obama is a secret muslim manchurian candidate, then you'll read all kinds of insane crap into his every word, like Rush does.

You clearly didn't read the article you linked, so I doubt you'll read this one, but here it is anyway: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040601369.html

Quote
Hans M. Kristensen, a nuclear expert at the Federation of American Scientists, noted that the new policy highlights the eventual goal of a world without nuclear weapons. However, he said, "the document is surprisingly cautious in terms of the measures that will move us there, because it essentially retains current U.S. nuclear policy."

Yup, that Obama sure is selling 'merka down the river.

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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2010, 01:55:25 PM »

doesn't the whole "don't nuke countries who don't have nukes" thing kind of go without saying anyway? we wouldn't have any reason to use them on any other country.

I suppose a scenario can be imagined in which it makes sense for us to nuke a nukeless country. And if that scenario ever plays out in reality, I doubt we'd hesitate deploying, policy or no policy.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 02:04:17 PM by ivan »
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pbsaurus

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2010, 02:00:26 PM »

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of you.  The monied interests always get their graft, regardless if it's a demublican or republocrat.

ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2010, 02:08:38 PM »

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of you. 


Except for when we're using bittorrent -- then it's communism.
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Demosthenes

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2010, 02:10:27 PM »

Or Linux.  Apparently that's communism too.
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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2010, 02:12:14 PM »

At its best.
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xolik

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2010, 02:49:15 PM »

I'm starting my own political party. P.O.P.P.

The Pissed Off People's Party.

Who wants in?
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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2010, 02:57:04 PM »

I'm pissed off AT people.

There is no party for me.
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xolik

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2010, 03:01:16 PM »

Our meetings revolve mostly around us screaming at each other and drinking until we pass out.
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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2010, 03:15:23 PM »

I'm in.
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Arnox

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2010, 04:19:03 PM »

Actually there are other political parties other than the main two but they get utter crap for media coverage.
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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2010, 04:20:44 PM »

Hence my use of the term "viable".  As in, "has a reasonable chance of winning a major election".
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12AX7

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2010, 05:41:11 PM »


 The scenario of using nukes against a non-nuclear nation is in retaliation for using chemical or biological attacks. This nearly happened in the first Gulf War.
I can tell you that having to M.O.P.P. up at any given time and wait for the gas to roll in is no fun at all. And biological? Forget about it. There's no warning, no way to prep for it; everyone just dies. Kinda like a nuke strike. Personally; I would indeed retain that option. It seems to be the biggest reason Saddam didn't use chemicals on us back then. That counts as deterrent to me.



 
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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2010, 07:06:44 PM »

The scenario of using nukes against a non-nuclear nation is in retaliation for using chemical or biological attacks. This nearly happened in the first Gulf War.
I can tell you that having to M.O.P.P. up at any given time and wait for the gas to roll in is no fun at all. And biological? Forget about it. There's no warning, no way to prep for it; everyone just dies. Kinda like a nuke strike. Personally; I would indeed retain that option. It seems to be the biggest reason Saddam didn't use chemicals on us back then. That counts as deterrent to me.

And would still be a deterrent now, even with the new policy. We thought Iraq was making nukes, so it would be nukeable. The thing about this policy is that we set it -- so we can change the rules whenever we want.

Obama's just trying to follow up on some of his lofty promises, for which he got elected and won the Peace Prize. But reality is a tough summabich, and he does not want to be remembered as the President who opened the gates to the barbarians.
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Wunderkind

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2010, 07:12:09 PM »

So... let's not nuke countries that don't have nukes, because you're not supposed to bully the poor kids.

But, it's okay to nuke countries with nukes so that they can nuke us back and we can start a nuclear winter! Yay! \o/

God I hate politics.

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Wunderkind

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2010, 07:18:28 PM »

... he does not want to be remembered as the President who opened the gates to the barbarians.
Too late. The Europeans landed a long time ago.
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12AX7

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2010, 07:25:35 PM »

  
And would still be a deterrent now, even with the new policy. We thought Iraq was making nukes, so it would be nukeable.

  Wrong conflict; we were liberating Kuwait. Nothing to do with believing they had nukes. We knew they didn't; the threat was bio/chemical. Now, however, the policy states we definitely would NOT nuke them (if the same conflict played out now) even if they attacked us with bio/chem; as they were not expected abide by the non-proliferation treaty as a nuclear nation. They weren't a nuclear nation, nor were we taking any action (at that time) in response to any nuclear ambitions.
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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2010, 07:26:53 PM »

So... let's not nuke countries that don't have nukes, because you're not supposed to bully the poor kids.

But, it's okay to nuke countries with nukes so that they can nuke us back and we can start a nuclear winter! Yay! \o/

God I hate politics.



Look, we can nuke Iran, which would get rid of one problem, and the ensuing mini-nuclear winter would neatly offset global warming. Everybody happy.

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12AX7

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2010, 07:29:07 PM »

 At any rate, I believe it is a mistake to announce anything other than the very barest minimum when talking to the world about your own defenses and capabilities.
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Wunderkind

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2010, 07:30:40 PM »

At any rate, I believe it is a mistake to announce anything other than the very barest minimum when talking to the world about your own defenses and capabilities.
Since that makes perfect sense, our leaders will now do the opposite and blab to the world that we have more than we actually do.
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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2010, 07:39:27 PM »

 
  Wrong conflict; we were liberating Kuwait. Nothing to do with believing they had nukes. We knew they didn't; the threat was bio/chemical. Now, however, the policy states we definitely would NOT nuke them (if the same conflict played out now) even if they attacked us with bio/chem; as they were not expected abide by the non-proliferation treaty as a nuclear nation. They weren't a nuclear nation, nor were we taking any action (at that time) in response to any nuclear ambitions.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/

http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/timetable.htm 

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ivan

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2010, 07:41:53 PM »

At any rate, I believe it is a mistake to announce anything other than the very barest minimum when talking to the world about your own defenses and capabilities.

Yes, I agree. But overall, I think Obama has been pretty hawky for a Peace Prize winner.
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pbsaurus

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2010, 08:16:28 PM »

Yep makes one really buy into all those NWO conspiracy theories.

12AX7

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2010, 08:17:38 PM »

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/

http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/timetable.htm  




  Not sure what you're getting at. We were there to liberate Kuwait; not stop a nuclear program. We knew they didnt have nukes; and only suspected that they probably would love to acquire them. Our biggest concern was their bio/chem program and their missile capabilities; fearing they would use bio or chemical warheads.

 http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/wmd04.pdf

So; yeh, it had nothing to do with him wanting/having/trying to get nukes. We assumed he did (want them); but that's kind of an obvious assumption, not a plan for a first strike. The first Gulf War was liberation of Kuwait. It wasn't until after that any inspections or resolutions were made.

 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 08:22:28 PM by 12AX7 »
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Clear_Runway

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Re: Nuclear Deterrence
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2010, 08:48:57 PM »

wow, this is a hot discussion

anyways, I would like to point out that just because biological weapons aren't nukes, they're still WMDs, and they have the potential to be just as destructive. so retaliation with nukes against bioweapons would be just as ethical as retaliation with nukes against nukes
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