Topic: Building a server room: Part 2 (56k... Probably not) (Read 4537 times)

Chris · « **on:** May 20, 2007, 01:49:30 PM »

Instead of bringing the old thread back to life, I decided to go ahead and make a new one since I'm about ready to really get things moving.

I'm just about ready to start framing things out. However, I did run into one major problem - I have nothing to nail into! The entire frame overhead is nothing but steal i-beams that run in both directions, and the floor and walls are concrete. I know I can get a special concrete drill bit to make the holes in the flood and walls, but I'm stumped when it comes to securing the 2 x 4s up top. I took some pictures of the overhead assembly in hopes that some of you guys will be able to point me in the right direction.

Here is a shot of the corner that I want to build the room in:

Here are two pictures of the i-beams running above:

Last but not least, here is a picture of one of the weird brackets that line the entire basement. Perhaps these brackets can assist me in securing the frame to the wall?

Any suggestions that you guys have would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to keep a detailed an accurate build log for you guys to check out while I'm building this thing.

RelandR · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:13:23 PM »

Think right angle *Brackets*. They'll need to be welded to the iron and to them you'd fasten *nailers* to which you can connect/hang a drop ceiling grid.

On the walls you'd anchor a similar chingadera to the concrete and screw them to your new framed wall sections. Better than drilling into concrete, rent or borrow a "powder accuated anchoring tool", basically a .22 pistol designed to shoot pins into the concrete.

The weird brackets on the walls are old form-ties. They held the form panels to a fixed distance from each other and can be cut off or hammered over. They are of no significant use to you.

Make sure you address any moisture issues down there beforehand else you'll end up with mold and rot problems down the line.

dcrog · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:14:37 PM »

The weird brackets are wall ties that were used to hold the concrete forms together while pouring the basement. You could use screws with a flat washer through them to hold your studs. They are quite strong as far as pulling straight out. They look like they are on 24" centers so you could either frame the walls on 24" or use the ones that would work out at 48" and frame at 16". If any are being a nuisance all you have to do is take a hammer and hit straight down on them and possibly back up and they will snap about 1/2" inside the wall. They are designed to break off in this manner. Most contractors would have broken them when they wrecked the concrete forms.

To attach a top plate to the C-channels all you need are some wing cutter tech screws (tech screws for a tech room

). These can be purchased either with a hex head or phillips head and have a drill bit made onto the end of each screw. The wing cutter type will have to small spurs just above the drilling head that let you drill it through the wood and it makes a slightly larger hole through the wood so when it hits the metal it doesn't try to push the board off of what you're trying to attach to. When you buy them make sure that you know how thick the metal you're drilling is. The drill ends on the screws actually come in different lengths. If it is anything over 1/4" though you may have a hard time getting them to thread themselves in.

From the pictures I believe that this is a manufactured home which was brought in and lifted with a crane onto the basement walls. It looks like that makes the lower rusty looking one a main support that is resting in a pocket in the basement walls. But the last part is just an assumption without more pictures.

Questions or comments, fire away. You're in my realm now.

dcrog · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:16:13 PM »

Those powder accuated tools can also be used to attach to the steel with the proper nails and loads.

Chris · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:37:34 PM »

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Though I like the idea of obtaining some form of firearm to aid in the building process, I don't think my folks will be too fond of the idea. Sadly, I'll have to stick with a concrete drill bit, I suppose.

As far as the wing cutter tech screws go, are these something that can be picked up at Home Depot or Lowes? I have never heard of such a thing, but it sounds pretty diabolical.

By the way, dc, you're right on. This is a pre-fabed house that was put together section by section. I wonder if further down the road my parents could "order" another section...

12AX7 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Chris on May 20, 2007, 05:37:34 PM

As far as the wing cutter tech screws go, are these something that can be picked up at Home Depot or Lowes? I have never heard of such a thing, but it sounds pretty diabolical.

Yep, you sure can. They are also known as "self-tapping" or "bit-tipped".

dcrog · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2007, 07:17:22 PM »

Yep like 12 said. Just look for the ones with the little spur on the sides above the drill bit. Otherwise you'll have to drill a hole slightly larger than the screw and then put the screw through the hole and drill with the screw.

One other thing, just don't try to count exactly how many you'll need and buy that amount. Depending on the steel you will likely have several that will ruin the bit on the end of the screw. If that poses too much of a problem though you can always drill a pilot hole through the steel/iron with a bit about the size of the screw tip. Pain in the ass that way, but sometimes you do what you gotta do.

12AX7 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2007, 07:31:25 PM »

* 12AX7 remembers using two drill motors for convienience; one drill bit, one driver bit

RelandR · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2007, 07:32:45 PM »

I was just thinking, why attach to the iron at all ? Above that girder work should be a joisted floor frame from which one could hang enough wire by way of screw-eyes to carry a suspended ceiling.

Less difficult and less costly than framing a ceiling. More versitile for adjustments etc. later as well.

12AX7 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2007, 07:45:18 PM »

You got a really good point there.

Chris · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2007, 07:55:47 PM »

Quote from: RelandR on May 20, 2007, 07:32:45 PM

I was just thinking, why attach to the iron at all ? Above that girder work should be a joisted floor frame from which one could hang enough wire by way of screw-eyes to carry a suspended ceiling.

Less difficult and less costly than framing a ceiling. More versitile for adjustments etc. later as well.

You know, you raise an excellent point. I just went down there and looked above the insulation and sure enough there was normal frame work. Good thing you pointed that out!

One other thought, is there anything wrong with securing 2 x 4s to these joists since it is a modular house?

If not, this is sure going to make the process a hell of a lot easier! Half the time, probably.

RelandR · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2007, 08:11:12 PM »

Actually, Option 11 (from above link) has a couple drawerings that would illustrate just such a work-around for odd intrusions to the ceiling plane that could be used/adapted as a top atachment point for walls as well.

Since your walls are of the *partition* variety and not supporting anything (structurally) the operative theory is to just make them 'hold still' ... pegging them strategically here and there is adequate. Parts of the wall section(s) can reach up to meet the joists as necessary, a couple anchors to the floor and you should be right.

Keep in mind the notion of not trapping damp air between new walls and the concrete foundation. A little air space is a good thing, it not only helps with the breathing factor but saves drilling thru frame for any cable runs you might need to make. Also, a strip of rubber lining between wall plates (bottom flat part) and the slab is wise.

12AX7 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2007, 08:15:44 PM »

Yes; and the bottom plate needs to be treated lumber. The rest of the framing can be untreated.

RelandR · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2007, 09:01:46 PM »

Absolootelee on the treated wood.

On that point about your folks not keen on firearms, the tool is really only *firearm-borrowed technology* and only resembles a pistola ... they wouldn't really need to know this fact and it would make really short work of slab attachment.

Pop-pop-pop and yer done vs hours(?) of drilling and hammering in anchors.

RelandR · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2007, 12:51:01 AM »

oops, didn't specifically address this:

Quote

... is there anything wrong with securing 2 x 4s to these joists since it is a modular house?...

Shouldn't make any difference at all.

Especially if you connect the original members with 2.5" or 3" drywall screws. If anyone wants to dismantle your creation at some later date there wouldn't need to be any bashing and cutting it to hell ... just disassemble.

As a matter of fact, just about any place you can use a comparably sized screw instead of a nail you're better off, it's easier on you and the existing material, it's stronger and it gives you virtually unlimited undo's.

12AX7 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2007, 01:17:24 AM »

Quote from: RelandR on May 21, 2007, 12:51:01 AM

As a matter of fact, just about any place you can use a comparably sized screw instead of a nail you're better off, it's easier on you and the existing material, it's stronger and it gives you virtually unlimited undo's.

...since it cant be said enough......

RelandR · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2007, 01:51:15 AM »

Drilling and Screwing and Nailing and OoohMymymy !

jeee · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2007, 01:06:15 PM »

I always use these: http://www.hofa.nl/Nederlands/Vleugelteks%20NL.htm
when putting metal to metal, but maybe you guys are talking about the same thing

dcrog · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:07:09 PM »

Thats what I was talking about jeee. That one is made for installing wood to metal, hence the little wing cutters on the sides.

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Author Topic: Building a server room: Part 2 (56k... Probably not) (Read 4537 times)

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