Topic: SIGNAL ORANGE (Read 14592 times)

Demosthenes · « **on:** June 14, 2004, 09:26:21 PM »

I thought this was an interesting idea.

SignalOrange.net

HeavyJay · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2004, 09:39:00 PM »

I find that rather crude. Using someone's death to voice your own political opinions is so...tactless.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #2 on:** June 15, 2004, 12:35:09 AM »

Quote from: HeavyJay

I find that rather crude. Using someone's death to voice your own political opinions is so...tactless.

Quote

Signal Orange doesn’t say that these soldiers or their families condemn or support the war, and it doesn’t speak for them. Whether they opposed or supported the war, they were fighting for our right to decide democratically whether a war is just or not. They’ve been buried twice—once in the ground, and once in the media. If we can make them visible in the media through Signal Orange, we can demonstrate that they had voices that have been lost.

I like the idea and I also think they should make hats.

Law · « **Reply #3 on:** June 15, 2004, 08:00:36 AM »

It's not a bad idea, but a majority of people will miss the message.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2004, 08:06:00 AM »

Yeah, I kind of thought that too. I could easily see needing to explain the whole concept to most people that see such a shirt, and even then only having perhaps half of those people getting it.

Rico · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2004, 04:16:52 PM »

Just found out that I have been selected to be part of a team that may insert into Iraq late this year. It's not certain yet, but I'm more than willing to go help my friends.

If, by some chance, I get killed, don't you dare allow my name to be on one of those shirts.

Anonymous · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2004, 04:18:43 PM »

Quote from: Rico

If, by some chance, I get killed, don't you dare allow my name to be on one of those shirts.

What would they put on the other side of the shirt?

gorgeous_si · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2004, 04:20:00 PM »

Quote from: Rico

Just found out that I have been selected to be part of a team that may insert into Iraq late this year...

Rico's going away again?

Good luck if you do! And we'll see what we can do about the shirts

reimero · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:32:48 AM »

Quote from: Rico

Just found out that I have been selected to be part of a team that may insert into Iraq late this year. It's not certain yet, but I'm more than willing to go help my friends.

If, by some chance, I get killed, don't you dare allow my name to be on one of those shirts.

Good luck on your deployment!

Law · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:35:39 AM »

Quote from: Rico

Just found out that I have been selected to be part of a team that may insert into Iraq late this year. It's not certain yet, but I'm more than willing to go help my friends.

Man, San Antonio is that bad?!?

Sorry to hear it, but good luck if you go.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:37:27 AM »

My brother's being sent over to Iraq in a few months too.

Keep us posted on when you go and when you'll be back, Rico.

MISTER MASSACRE · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:52:10 AM »

Wow, and it's almost like you just got home.

hackess · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:55:59 AM »

Quote from: Lacerda

Wow, and it's almost like you just got home.

Yeah, pretty much...

xolik · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2004, 09:52:53 AM »

Rico, I hope the time flies by for you and you come back home quickly.

Rico · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:07:18 PM »

I'm not leaving yet, guys! If I do, it won't be for another several months at the least.

The point that I was trying to make, is that several of those people that have died over there are people that I have either heard of, or actually been friends with. It infuriates me that some one would take advantage of soldiers who died in the line of duty to make a political statement. I'm simply saying that we have a job to do. We are willing to die in order to ensure that our families and friends back home have every possible chance to live free lives. To take that sacrifice and turn it on our Commander-in-Chief... I just can't think of a more dispicable act.

Politicians are what the voter forces them to be. Too many people are concerned with what's for them to really care what's for everyone else. No one cares what is in the best intrest of their neighbor, only what they get out of the deal. They vote with that in mind and what you see is the end result. Americans today have no concept of loyalty or selfless service. Does it matter that I agree with this war or not? Not in the least. My President has said to go, and we go. I will back him with every fiber of my being, because backing him is backing my country.

I don't some one who hasn't put the welfare of the nation above themselves sporting the name of my death brothers and sisters in some obscene attempt at reconition. I'm sorry if I offended some of you folks, but that shirt literally made me sick at my stomach when I saw it, and I felt I had to say something.

Law · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:31:37 PM »

Does it bother you that the President is using you as a political tool for the elections too?

hackess · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:31:39 PM »

Quote from: Rico

I will back him with every fiber of my being, because backing him is backing my country.

So because I think Bush is an arrogant moron, I hate America?

Rico · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:46:10 PM »

Tell you what. We'll start shooting your friends and see if you still think it's cute.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:48:20 PM »

Quote from: Law

Does it bother you that the President is using you as a political tool for the elections too?

*echoes that*

Some of us find it even more despicable that the arrogant, smarmy S.O.B.'s in the White House are spilling brave American blood for no purpose other than to further their own personal ideological agendas.

There have been over 800 American soldiers killed in action in Iraq.

No weapons of mass destruction
No direct threat to the United States
No connection between Hussein's regime and Al Qaeda[/list:u]

But plenty of fist-shaking and claims about all three of those things from a President that has sent us headlong down a course that has alienated our strongest allies, created a uniting cause for terrorists to focus on world-wide, and has been in the process of systematically dismantling the Bill of Rights since setting foot in the Oval Office.

If those things weren't disgraceful enough, he had the gall to spill American blood to further his own neo-conservative agenda, and claim that those opposed to it somehow aren't "good 'Mericans".

It is far more fitting that those war dead be remembered for having some sort of purpose for their deaths, but in this case, there was none. That, to me, is unforgivable. It is way more justifiable to use their names to educate the public of the human cost this president has forced us to live with as a result of his violent, arrogant decisions than it is for him to send more and more to their death to carry out his warped, selfish plans for his vision of "how the world should be".

Rico, you know damn well that some of the rest of us served our country in uniform as well, and served honorably and at our own behest.

That's what brings this death toll even closer to home for us. We know what it is like to be in harm's way to defend the country that we love.

And there are those of us that can't stand to see others being needlessly slain in the name of politics under the thin guise of patriotism. It's a disgusting abuse of his position, and I for one refuse to stand for it.

I posted this link because I think it's important that the names of the fallen be known, and because I thought the shirts these people are promoting was a tasteful and eloquent way of doing that in a time when the administration directly responsible for their deaths is doing everything it can to suppress the human cost of this doomed effort.

My brother is going there. I personally know two other people that are there now.

And they shouldn't be. This is important. These are good soldiers, being wasted. Good Americans, coming home in coffins.

And that smirking asshole is sitting there in the White House, trying to justify this mess and he simply can't do it.

I stand by my link. In fact, I'm thinking of getting one of those shirts.

hackess · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:49:25 PM »

Quote from: Rico

Tell you what. We'll start shooting your friends and see if you still think it's cute.

Now I'm confused. Who said anything cute?

I don't think the shirts are a great idea. I think there are more respectful ways to honor the dead. There are however also worse things that can be done with the names of those who have died, including using them as an election tool (as already stated). My brother has three or four friends in Iraq. They went there willingly. You start shooting at my friends without them knowing what they're getting into, well...it's not comparable.

What I'm miffed about is that you're calling me un-American because I don't support the President's actions.

Joe Mama · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:06:07 PM »

Rico, why is it bad to remember fallen soldiers? And why is it bad to oppose the president? Isnt that what we were founded on? You know, freedom of speech and all that jazz? I have went round and round with people about this situation several times. If those people want to wear those shirts, then so be it. It's certainly more tasteful than Bush standing in front of the country with a smirk on his face talking about how "he" took down Saddam. The bastard was a coward during Vietnam and he is a coward now. He didn't take down anything. The war was a self-serving venture from the start. I don't want to go into it all at this moment, as I don't really want to write an essay.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:08:07 PM »

Personally, I don't think Bush is a very patriotic person.

He seems to be doing everything in his power to damage this country and its citizens. To me, those aren't the actions of a person who loves his country.

reimero · « **Reply #22 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:12:14 PM »

Is it right that protestors use certain deceased soldiers to further their political goals, with which the soldiers and their families may not have agreed?

It's one thing to use the name of a soldier who agreed to it before his death, but this seems to me to be a violation of the soldiers' memories and a politicizing of what is for many a personal tragedy.

I understand the message, but I'm not sure this is the right way to go about spreading it: they're essentially being turned into poster children for the opposite of what they stood for.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #23 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:14:38 PM »

Quote from: reimero

I understand the message, but I'm not sure this is the right way to go about spreading it: they're essentially being turned into poster children for the opposite of what they stood for.

What is it, exactly, that "they stood for"?

Defending the United States from its enemies?

From where I sit, it appears that the biggest enemies the United States has right now are the individuals in charge of it.

Or did they stand for invading other countries in order to enact "regime change" based on the personal beliefs of their CinC?

Or did they stand for occupying countries whose citizens don't want them there?

I know what I "stood for" when I was in uniform. I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

I also swore to obey my superiors in all lawful orders.

But that doesn't mean that I believed in them, politically. Nor was I required to.

Hell, while I served in the military, the CinC I served under was Clinton. I didn't think I could have more contempt for a US president until the past few years.

reimero · « **Reply #24 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:30:28 PM »

That's the thing: I don't know what they stood for, and neither do you or those making the shirts. That's my entire point: different people stand for different things, and those who join the military each have very different and personal reasons.

Some swore "never again" after 9/11. Others may have wanted to help Iraq or Afghanistan somehow. But that's my point: everyone had his or her own reason, and you don't know if that reason is compatible with the making of the shirts.

I dunno, this seems to me to cheapen their deaths and lessen their memories. I'm sure others see it differently, but I'd prefer that they simply be allowed to rest in peace. There are other equally effective means for making the point being made.

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Author Topic: SIGNAL ORANGE (Read 14592 times)

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