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[Davidfak]

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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[Crystalmonkey]

We're not talking about porn as obscene. It's fine to show a scene where a woman is raped, as Teh Judgie said it's a lot about intent.

If the film tries to make the rape a positive thing, that's "porn" under our class definition of porn I think. The reason rape is considered a bad thing is based on "our" (apply that how you want) view of equality. Women are the equals of Men, Blacks the equals of Whites.

If this were "Society X" and subordination was considered a good thing, where rape is fine, then the argument would probably be false.  It's important to look at context when determining something, with few exception.



Also, according to something the class is reading:

Rape isn't a sex crime, or at least shouldn't be thought of in that sense. Instead, it's more of an attack against the person.

"To understand the impact of rape, it would seem appropriate to examine it in the context of other crimes against the person as they are experienced by the victim. All crimes against the person can be said to be violations of the self and, as such, precipitate crisis reactions."

"In an important symbolic sense, their homes are extensions of themselves. It is, in the most primitive sense, both nest and castle...When that nest is befouled by a burglary, it is not so much the fact that money or possessions have been taken, but more that a part of the self has been intruded upon or violated."

"In armed robbery... not only is an extention of the self (property, money, etc...) taken from the victim, but he or she is also coercively deprived of independence and autonomy, the ability to determine one's own fate. That is, under threat of violence, the victim surrenders autonomy and control, and his or her fate rests unpredictably in the hands of a threatening 'other.'"

"Here there is a double threat: the loss of control, the loss of independence, the removal of something one sees symbolically as part of his "self," but now with a new ingredient. An injury is inflicted on the body, which can be regarded as the envelope of the self. The external part of the self is injured, and it is painful, not only physically, but internally in ego terms as well."

Ego meaning our sense of self.

[MISTER MASSACRE]

Doesn't the Internet render local community standards moot? FHM is on line. You can see Rachael Ray half-naked even in Waco.

All that really does then is institute a money barrier to pornography - can't afford a computer and internet? Hope you don't like looking at naked people!

[pbsaurus]

Doesn't the Internet render local community standards moot? FHM is on line. You can see Rachael Ray half-naked even in Waco.

All that really does then is institute a money barrier to pornography - can't afford a computer and internet? Hope you don't like looking at naked people!

They can always do what we did as kids, and go through the paper recycling bins searching for magazines.  One afternoon we hit the mother lode (about 20 old playboys, penthouses, and even two hustlers) in the boy scout's recycling bin.

[Crystalmonkey]

hit the motherload...in the boy scout's... bin.

I love the power of the "..."

[Phife]

Doesn't the Internet render local community standards moot? FHM is on line. You can see Rachael Ray half-naked even in Waco.

True.  But access FHM online while working at the county courthouse and it will be blocked by AdSense or the like, logged, and after so many "incidents" you will be on the evening news as the guy who got fired for ogling porn.

It has happend.  (and no, not to me!)

[pbsaurus]

So Waco is kinda like China then?

[Demosthenes]

"Community standards" is just another way of saying "might makes right".

[pbsaurus]

That's the way I view it.  The Constitution was set up to prevent the majority from oppressing the minority.

[Crystalmonkey]

That's the way I view it.  The Constitution was set up to prevent the majority from oppressing the minority.

A minority of people think murder is alright, but that violates our right to life.

Hate Speech, in some instances, is outlawed, because it violates our right to equality. (Hostile work environment, etc...)

It's not so much about minority/majority, as the fact that we have certain unalienable rights. A lot of the votes, however, require a majority or in some cases a super majority.

[pbsaurus]

Comparing censorship to eating live babies isn't really apples to apples is it?  Certain freedoms such as speech, leaving religious practice to the individual, etc. are spelled out.  Remember the Bill of Rights?  I don't recall the right to murder being one of those.  The intent of the three branches, separation of powers, and providing individuals with certain rights were put in place to prevent oppression of a minority by the majority.  Religion was specifically denoted because many of our refugees immigrated here to escape oppression of a state-sponsored church.  The Calvinists, Quakers, et al wanted to be free to practice their beliefs.  So did the deists, atheists, agnostics, pastafarians.  The 'community standards' argument is synonymous to the Anglican church saying you have to believe in free will even though you're a Calvinist.

Consumption of pornography, erotica, product x, whatever you care to deem it does not infringe upon other individuals rights when one consumes it.  Those who don't want to be exposed have means by which they can avoid it and 'protect their children' (which I find a convenient excuse to impose morality on non-like minded individuals), through various means.  The internet can be monitored, controlled by parents.  Merchants can refuse to sell to minors, etc.  A child is the responsibility of a parent, not the state.  I don't believe that one can find anywhere in the Constitution that the state shall protect children from potential threats to the morality being imposed by their parents.

Murder on the other hand affects another's freedom by definition and as such has been made illegal, which is perfectly constitutional.

[Crystalmonkey]

I didn't say I support banning Porn, I'm just trying to bring up the other side of things.

Banning porn isn't a matter of censorship, of obscenity and "community standards", it's a matter of descrimination and equality.

Take for instance a case called Bowman v Heller. In it, Bowman was running for state office and Heller took her face from one of her campaign handouts and pasted it onto the bodies of porn stars, one of which who was masturbating with a banana. Since they were campaign photos, she was smiling in the one he used.

First, Heller claimed that as a "public figure" he had the right to say whatever he wanted about Bowman.

Second, he said that the picture was making the statement, "She's a woman, don't vote for her."

I ask whether there is a difference between saying "Fucking Nigger" and "I think you are a second class citizen because you're black." One invites discussion while making a statement, the other is hateful.

And considering she was running to head the local union, how much of a public figure is she. It's a very grey area.



Just some food for thought, not saying whether I agree or disagree.

[pbsaurus]

Oh I know.  And that sounds like an interesting one.  The pornography wouldn't be at issue, but libel/slander would be at issue here, I'd believe.  I wish we could get our buddy Law in here.  He always brings an interesting perspective and he's well versed in constitutional law.

[Crystalmonkey]

Yeah where has Law been anyway?

I don't think I'm presenting the argument as well as I should, so let me try to start at the very bottom of things.


Has anyone heard of "Speech Act Theory"?

[hackess]

*summons Law*

[Crystalmonkey]

Speech Act Theory is basically the idea that one of the uses of language has effects on reality, whether it is perception or as an act itself.

For example, let's say you and a friend are watching a game, like the Superbowl. Your friend turns towards you and says, "I bet you five bucks that team X is going to win." You look at him, look at the score, and say, "You're on."

One of the traditional views about language is that it's used to describe a state of affairs in the world. "The cat is on the mat." Essentially, the utterance has a true/false quality to it.

When making a bet, there is no true/false quality to it. The bet doesn't even exist until you say the words and your friend agrees, which brings out an important part of SAT, that it's community based and relies on convention.


Understand me so far?

[KirkRules]

And here I was, expecting pics... *sigh*

you and me both buddy, what a blow out

[Crystalmonkey]

And here I was, expecting pics... *sigh*

you and me both buddy, what a blow out

Thanks for raising the dead with an utterly USELESS post.

[pbsaurus]

*summons Law*

You better check your bitrate on that connection of yours.

[hackess]

*summons Law*

You better check your bitrate on that connection of yours.

Seriously. *fiddles with wires*

[Dark Shade]

Better call Comcast. 

[QueenBee]

Hmmmm I don't think pornography can be banned because it has become an official industry and it respects the human right to chose!Come on,nobody will make you watch a porn tape,buy a porn magazine or click on a porn site...it's all your choice!So if adult people chose to watch it,who do you think you are to ban it?Then maybe they should ban cell phones because they produce cancer or computer games because they damage the eyes!!!Don't be ridiculous everybody is curious about sex and 90% of the parents won't give you details...remember 'Knowledge is power' !

[MISTER MASSACRE]

This incredibly generic message brought to you by QueenBee, enlightening us poor geeks since today!

[QueenBee]

This incredibly generic message brought to you by QueenBee, enlightening us poor geeks since today!

thanks girl but enlightening you is not my purpose unfortunatelly....I'm just sad because school is over and I miss the....uhmm well...you'll figure what I miss about geeks if you're so smart  )

[MISTER MASSACRE]

No, your purpose seems to be bumping long dead threads with these ingenious contributions. But hey, keep it up and I'll be able to tell you very specifically what you'll be missing.

[QueenBee]

haha...sorry but in my post I talked about porn and kept on topic...you on the other side came along and said..nothing!!! so who's pointless honey?but its okay i understand you need attention )...please prove me that you are so informed about this topic because I would like to know the position of the American doctors towards sexual education in schools and pornography...I heard school projects were developped there on this issue