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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[12AX7]

The End of God?: A Horizon Guide to Science and Religion

The relationship between science and religion has been long and troubled: from the condemnation of Galileo by the Catholic Church in 17th century Italy, through the clashes between creationism and evolution in 20th century America, right up to recent claims that the universe does not need God.

Delving through the rich archive of programmes from Horizon and BBC Science, Thomas Dixon looks at what lies behind this difficult relationship. Using original footage from 1925, he tells the story of John Scopes, a Tennessee teacher who was tried for teaching evolution. He sees the connections between religion and American politics in the story of a more recent court case -- the trial of Intelligent Design. He looks at what happens when new scientific discoveries start to explain events that were once seen as the workings of God, and explains how some of our most famous scientists have seen God in the grandest laws of the universe. Finally, he finds intriguing evidence from brain science which hints that belief in God is here to stay.

[Fraggles]

Like most skeptic nerds, I have a hard time with this topic of discussion. You've heard the term, innocent until proven guilty, so don't go blaming your problems on some omnipotent father figure.

But I remember asking one of my old workmates what her opinions were on god. I had recently found out she was from South Africa and wondered if she were religious at all. So my question was "Do you believe in Evolution or Creation?" She replied "Both."
This stumped me. I sat stood there mid coffee creation with a little confusion on my face and questioned "Then you don't believe in the bible?" She replied with "Yes. I do." and I questioned how that was possible. Her reply went something along these lines "The bible was crafted by humans, humans are dumb. The earth is clearly not 6000 years old, but billions. God set things in motion and flawed humans trying to view his works were forced to put small numbers on it to make him seem more relatable."

Whilst this doesn't convert me, I was still struck dumb for a moment with a Christians ability to be rational. 

[Demosthenes]

Some people are capable of doing some pretty impressive logical gymnastics and rationalization in order to justify their beliefs.  That too, is human.

[Fraggles]

But belief, by definition, defies and even condemns rationality.
Shortly before this talk with my work mate, I had asked the same question to another Christian girl, her reply was what I had expected "There is a god blablabla all knowing, he'll spank you with a belt if you don't heeed!"
Then after hearing the South African lasses reply, she immediately says "Oh yeah, that makes sense... I totally agree!"
Gain some hope for humanity, lose some hope.

[pbsaurus]

There are many variations of christianity.  It sounds like the n00b is generalizing a little much.  Not all are of the batshit crazy-very vocal fundie type.

[TerrorDronze]

But belief, by definition, defies and even condemns rationality.
Shortly before this talk with my work mate, I had asked the same question to another Christian girl, her reply was what I had expected "There is a god blablabla all knowing, he'll spank you with a belt if you don't heeed!"
Then after hearing the South African lasses reply, she immediately says "Oh yeah, that makes sense... I totally agree!"
Gain some hope for humanity, lose some hope.

Do not confuse belief for faith.  Belief requires some degree of validation, relevant or irrelevant, even if it is in the shouts of the like-minded or one's own paranoid delusions.  Faith, however, is irrational and requires no actual evidence no support in favour of or to the contrary, allowing it to go unimpeded by the inherant handicaps of seeking out the masses for validation.

That being said, do you have that chick's number?  She sounds like exactly the type of chick I'm looking for at the moment, dumb and wicked kinky.

[Fraggles]

Lol if you're up for a trip to Australia I could probably find her number for you. The belt bit was also a bit of flavour text added by myself to make her vapid rant a bit more interesting.

Also you're correct. I was lumping faith and belief into the same meaning.

[TerrorDronze]

I guess that depends on that part of Oz you're living in...  I hear the flooding is pretty bad over there in munchkin land...

[Fraggles]

True but off topic! My city is fine, although there is a big ass river running down the middle that's looking pretty full at the moment.

[ivan]

But belief, by definition, defies and even condemns rationality.

Many people reconcile faith and science. Some of them are even scientists. If you have an a priori belief in a creative intelligence, then any scientific discovery is just another facet of the Grand Design. Your work mate already considers the Bible a non-literal interpretation of past events,  so how can any scientific knowledge challenge her beliefs? Evolution? Fine -- God invented it. Where's the conflict between faith and rationality?

[Fraggles]

I don't so much mind scientists that are Christians. Since most of them are smart enough to not go around trouncing me over the head with their beliefs. It's the standard normal day to day Christians I have a problem with. We don't have that many religious people here in Australia, but they are all die hard. So it gets to be quite difficult to deal with.
It was just nice to see someone with a lick of sense.

[ivan]

What about scientists who are Zoroastrians?

They suck totally.

[Fraggles]

Couldn't say I have an opinion one way or another.