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  • (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

Author Topic: US Government latest actions against online poker  (Read 10111 times)

TheJudge

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US Government latest actions against online poker
« on: April 18, 2011, 09:26:42 PM »

Visit:

http://fulltiltpoker.com/
http://pokerstars.com/
http://ultimatebet.com/
http://absolutepoker.com/

Discuss.

(I like to give zero context to get things started)
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ivan

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 09:39:53 PM »

Well, then.
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ivan

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 09:43:56 PM »

This sucks, but you have to play the cards you've been dealt. I hope you don't just fold.

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"I TYPE 120 WORDS PER MINUTE, BUT IT'S IN MY OWN LANGUAGE!"  -Detta

xolik: WHERE IS OBAMA'S GIFT CERTIFICATE?
Demosthenes: Is that from the gifters movement?


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jeee

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 03:02:41 AM »

Let's say the USA amazes me. You can buy a gun but need protection against gambling habits. I will miss the americans, they're not the best at their own game anymore.

ivan

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 10:54:34 AM »

Let's say the USA amazes me. You can buy a gun but need protection against gambling habits. I will miss the americans, they're not the best at their own game anymore.

Protection against gambling habits is not the purpose of gambling bans. Some people who oppose gambling consider it an inherently corrupt business and a magnet for organized crime. Others oppose it simply because they believe gambling is immoral. This attitude goes all the way back to the Puritans, and still runs deep.

Just another example of an American dichotomy -- picture in your mind the musket-toting Puritan who believes it's his moral imperative to shoot your balls off for dancing or buying a lottery ticket.
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"I TYPE 120 WORDS PER MINUTE, BUT IT'S IN MY OWN LANGUAGE!"  -Detta

xolik: WHERE IS OBAMA'S GIFT CERTIFICATE?
Demosthenes: Is that from the gifters movement?


Detta: Crappy old shorts and a tank top.  This is how I dress for work. Because my job is to get puked on.
Demosthenes: So is mine.  I work in IT.


bananaskittles: The world is 4chan and God is a troll.

TheJudge

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2011, 08:35:28 AM »

Here's some context

2006 - Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) passes. This act is misinterpreted by government and by the public. Without getting into details, the bottom line of this act is that it strengthens existing gambling related laws and primarily targets the processing of financial transactions relating to gambling. This makes it more difficult for poker rooms offering services to US players, but not impossible. Some poker rooms decided to leave the US market (Party Poker for example) while others stuck around because of the lucrative market. In order to circumvent some US laws, gambling companies operated from offshore accounts, and many created a series of fake business as a way to get payments through without raising red flags from financial institutions which are really nervous about processing gambling transactions, thanks to the UIGEA.

Between then and now, there have been a few incidents where some poker rooms have gone rogue, although this is not a new problem. By going rogue, I mean they take everyone's money, close shop, and run away with millions. For some, it’s just another argument for the need regulate online gambling.

France regulated online gambling a year ago or so, meaning they now take tax on a portion of the rake generated by the poker rooms. The "rake" is the small percentage that the room takes from every pot played, just like a land based casino. Also last year, the Canadian province of British Columbia launched their own online gambling platform (via BC lottery). This is different because the government isn’t taxing a service offered by a third party, they’re actually running the business. While I am a supporter of safe online gambling, if I was a BC tax payer, I would have a big problem with this approach. Not to mention they were getting involved in an industry they had no experience with, and there was a major system crash on the initial launch.

In terms of the legal history, there’s a good summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_gambling. Scroll down to the US section. Wow! There’s more content there than all the other countries combined! lol

A significant debate has to do with defining if poker is a game of skill or a game of chance, because that really defines which US laws are applicable and which are not. There have been a few court rulings that are in favour of online gamblers, and some that are not. So it’s still being worked out in the system and that takes time. However, there seems to be a trend that could lead the US to re-enter the market. The big players in Las Vegas are certainly interested in pursuing this venture. Particularly the Harrah’s. Some even speculated that the latest move by the department of Justice in seizing control of the domains I posted above was in fact intended to cripple these companies to allow for an eventual entry of Las Vegas Casinos on the US online gambling market.

There has been interesting development in the last few days. It appears that PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker have made a deal with the US government. Their top priority is to ensure US players are able to cash out their funds. They have regained control of their domains. They are ceasing the operations in the US, for now at least. That’s very significant as 30% of PokerStars business is from US players. Full Tilt is even worse at 50%. The Cereus network (Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker) haven’t taken the deal yet, although it is on the table. It will be interesting to see what they end up doing.

It was also interesting to see the marketing strategy used by other poker rooms to take advantage of the situation. Many of them, targeting non US players, sent out emails to inactive players using scare tactics to urge them return claiming that their funds at Full Tilt and Pokerstars may be in jeopardy, that the future of those companies was uncertain, etc. They reiterated that their own operations were 100% legit, and had never taken bets from US players, thus didn’t face the legal risks and financial pressures that could bring the others down quickly. If you’re in the industry, you know this was mostly BS, but it was smart too. While this does damage PokerStars and Full Tilt, it won’t bring them down.

The whole situation however does lead me to believe that there will be interesting changes coming up in the US. Within a year or two, I would expect to see a taxation model in place, with online poker being legal. Well… technically, it is already legal. It’s the processing of financial transactions around it that is the issue but that will likely go away once the US government figures out the best way to get their cut. All I can say is they better get their act together sooner than later because they are missing out on massive revenue, and fighting it has not worked.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 08:39:04 AM by TheJudge »
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Banshee

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 11:16:35 AM »

I believe most of the arguments against unregulated gambling devolve on the assertion that it presents an attractive front for organized crime, and the government men with their badges and suits need to protect us against those cigar-puffing mobsters with prostitutes on their arm and wielding tommy guns.
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TheJudge

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 11:38:24 AM »

That's certainly what some governement officials would have you beleive. It is a known fact that there are such operations and this is just another arguement for regulating this industry. However, the industry is missrepresented. There are many legitimate operations out there, including some public companies who's stock is being traded on open europeean markets.
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Min

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2011, 03:49:21 PM »

Donald Trump for President!  He'll fix this bullshit.  He runs the finest casinos in the world...according to him anyway.  I'm not sure if I've ever been in one of his.  I may have given him some of my money in Atlantic City.

I think pokerstars.net still works.  My boy Daniel's on that one!
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TheJudge

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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2011, 09:53:25 PM »

They're back up now Detta. But they won't take bets from US players any more. I have many business associates that promote online poker and this will really set them back. Imagine when you have deals in place were you get a percentage of the rake generated by each player, and 80% of your players are US based. That means overnight, your income drops by 80%. Some of these folks were self employed and now they'll need to look for a day job. It's real bummer.

I'm a bug Trumo fan, but I don't think he can handle governement. Having worked in governemnt myself for over 10 years, there's so much legislation and procedures he'll never adapt to it, and he'll never get the system to change. He'll be completely out of his element if he goes there, and he thinks he knows what he's getting himself into, but the thing with Trump is he sued to calling the shots. He speaks his mind when most would keep quiet. It is both his strenght and weakness. On the international front, he's probably going to mess things up. But what the hell, they're fucked up already anyway I supose.
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Re: US Government latest actions against online poker
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2011, 12:40:33 AM »

I guess you could always get a VPN service I have had BTGuard for almost a year. As far as anyone knows my computer is in Germany

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