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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[12AX7]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6034706/Swimmers-are-told-to-wear-burkinis.html

   " Under the rules, swimmers – including non-Muslims – are barred from entering the pool in normal swimming attire.
Instead they are told that they must comply with the "modest" code of dress required by Islamic custom, with women covered from the neck to the ankles and men, who swim separately, covered from the navel to the knees."
   
   That makes perfect sense. Make everyone comply with the minority's peccadilloes. WE MUSTN'T OFFEND THE MUSLIMS!!!! Because we are, ya know, OFFENSIVE to them.
   Any bets on how long before such is implemented here?
   Is this fair, or not?
   Would you, personally take issue faced with such a situation?
   If so; why? If not; why not?

[Clear_Runway]

how is anyone supposed to swim in a burka? if anyone can, it's a neat trick

Seriously though, this isn't all the time, just 1 1/2 hour a day. Nobody but Muslims will attend, and it doesn't appear that pools are being forced to do this. This makes it only slightly insane.

What I don't get is that they even allow us infidels in the pool at that time, since this is forbidden to Muslims.

[xolik]

Why are people so terrified of offending Muslims? Why are people so willing to give up their own freedom and choices at the drop of a hat because it might make some Muslim guy slightly upset? Why are people, in the year 2009, so willing to throw themselves in the wayback machine and live by rules made up by some guy centuries ago, even though they aren't part of that religion? What is it about this particular religion that seems to intimidate people so much?

Eh, it's the Glorious Islamic Caliphate of Britanistan. I shouldn't really be surprised.

[sociald1077]

Why are people so terrified of offending Muslims? Why are people so willing to give up their own freedom and choices at the drop of a hat because it might make some Muslim guy slightly upset? Why are people, in the year 2009, so willing to throw themselves in the wayback machine and live by rules made up by some guy centuries ago, even though they aren't part of that religion? What is it about this particular religion that seems to intimidate people so much?

Eh, it's the Glorious Islamic Caliphate of Britanistan. I shouldn't really be surprised.

Because we have to fear someone. If your not afraid of someone then you can't look to your all knowing goverment/political structure for guidance.
We lost those damn commies and now we are reverting back to the old stand by of fearing Muslims.

On another note, who the fuck came up with "Burkini"? My vote for one of the stupidest words ever.

[mryellow]

I don't see what the big deal is. There's a demand for it apparently, the manager of the swimming pool is able to charge a premium entrance fee and everyone's happy. Since when is capitalism a sin? It's not like these are general rules that apply at all times. Seniors have special senior hours, I don't see anyone protesting that?

I was born and raised non-religious. It wasn't a choice or an accomplishment and I could easily have been raised as a Christian and ended up with different opinions as a result. There's hardly a choice involved, it's mostly indoctrination (I don't consider faith -internal- and religion -external- to be the same thing, nor do I believe religion leads to faith or faith cannot happen without religion). Makes you wonder what objectivity really is, a prime example is how a minority of Christians actively and a majority passively continue to discriminate against gay people in much the same way as the muslims are perceived to discriminate women. Western muslim women don't seem to mind an awful lot, so why should we? As long as it is within the law, let them have their cake and eat it too, as long as no one, including christians, eats mine.

Let's just have a special swimming hour for pro-christians as well, charge them a premium and have them come up with their own dressing code and let's be done with it.

[xolik]

I don't see what the big deal is. There's a demand for it apparently, the manager of the swimming pool is able to charge a premium entrance fee and everyone's happy. Since when is capitalism a sin? It's not like these are general rules that apply at all times. Seniors have special senior hours, I don't see anyone protesting that?

I was born and raised non-religious. It wasn't a choice or an accomplishment and I could easily have been raised as a Christian and ended up with different opinions as a result. There's hardly a choice involved, it's mostly indoctrination (I don't consider faith -internal- and religion -external- to be the same thing, nor do I believe religion leads to faith or faith cannot happen without religion). Makes you wonder what objectivity really is, a prime example is how a minority of Christians actively and a majority passively continue to discriminate against gay people in much the same way as the muslims are perceived to discriminate women. Western muslim women don't seem to mind an awful lot, so why should we? As long as it is within the law, let them have their cake and eat it too, as long as no one, including christians, eats mine.

I was waiting for somebody to post a "but but but TEH XTIANS!!!!11!" Thanks!

Remember kids, you can't say anything remotely negative about Islam without following it up with something about those damn dirty Christians as well. You wouldn't want to be labeled intolerant, right? C'mon, work with me here. This particular article about religious stupidity is about Islam. There's TONS of articles about religious stupidity from Christians. Why do so many people feel the same kneejerk reaction to start comparing the two? This goes for both sides.

Outdated Religious laws that restrict a person's freedoms and choices as an individual have no place being enforced in a free society. I don't give a crap what religion the law belongs to. In keeping with the "You must somehow equivocate Christianity to Islam when pointing out bad shit" theme, if the US passed a law mandating that everybody must eat fish on Friday, I'd be pissed. Sorry, it just irritates me when people try to justify stupid behavior from one group by saying that another group acted up at one point in time also, therefore we have to just roll over and take it.

Theocratic rule is bad. It starts small and grows and grows like a cancer. It should be struck down wherever and whenever it rears its ugly head.

Let's just have a special swimming hour for pro-christians as well, charge them a premium and have them come up with their own dressing code and let's be done with it.

So what you're saying is if they only had some sort of separate, but equal, thing....yeah, that's worked so well in the past. 

[12AX7]

Seniors have special senior hours, I don't see anyone protesting that?

  Well, you aren't required by law to get old to swim with them.

Let's just have a special swimming hour for pro-christians as well, charge them a premium and have them come up with their own dressing code and let's be done with it.

  They're already charged that 'premium', and already have a dressing code. It's called a swimsuit.

[12AX7]

   Lets stop for a second and imagine it another way.
 Suppose the law that is passed states that anyone wishing to swim must wear swim trunks/no shirt (males) or a bikini (females). That is already the established "normal" swimwear for most of the civilized world. Now imagine Abdul and his family shows up to swim. Do you feel it is appropriate and fair to force Abdul to show off his wife's body to everyone there? Of course not. He /she should be able to wear whatever they feel comfortable wearing. Correct?
   It would be a big deal then, would it not? To force Abdul's wife into a bikini and have her swim WITH OTHER MEN in the pool. . . I can only imagine the outrage. Being in Holland, I suppose you've seen first-hand
 what a Muslim protest looks like. Over cartoons. Imagine if it were something SERIOUS, like forcing their women to get "nekkid"...

   xolik is right: "Outdated Religious laws that restrict a person's freedoms and choices as an individual have no place being enforced in a free society."  None. At all.

[mryellow]

There is no such thing as outdated religious laws. The whole idea of religion, any religion, is outdated and I find it hard to see why there is still such a big influence of it on the modern world. Religion is still preaching intolerance, all religions do, and it is so contradicting to what the religions say they stand for, it is mind boggling why billions of people accept this without lingering doubts in their minds and the guts to just walk away. Since no one will... let's milk it.

There is no law being passed, again this is just one pool, specific hours and it is not even restricted to muslims (although it is hard to see why anyone else would want to come). What's the big deal? You want to tell the muslims how they should live their lives? That worked really well in the past didn't it, telling other people how they should live their lives. Does anyone ever bother to ask how I feel about laws passed to please christians that directly affect me, but are passed anyway because christianity is dominant and "part of our culture"?

[12AX7]

There is no law being passed, again this is just one pool, specific hours and it is not even restricted to muslims

  You didn't read the article, did you? The entire article is one incident after another after another after another at different pools all over Britain. It is NOT "just one pool". And the idea of a set of hours for one group only to use a public facility is completely against the whole IDEA of a "public facility". Why - if their separation is of such paramount importance; do they not have their own, private facility where they are free to impose whatever draconian rule makes them feel safe?
  As for it 'not being a law'; all I can say is : "Yet." This sort of rule ALWAYS ends up in court, and will either be passed as Law; or banned by Law. The fact that it is being imposed on the general public so easily without being law is even a bit more disturbing than if it HAD been passed as law.

What's the big deal? You want to tell the muslims how they should live their lives?

Tell the Muslims? How they live their lives? Huh? This has nothing to do with Muslims and how the live their lives. This has to do with Muslims imposing how they live their lives on EVERYONE ELSE. I don't care how Muslims live their lives.

That worked really well in the past didn't it, telling other people how they should live their lives.

  Including the sarcasm; Exactly. That is my whole point.

Does anyone ever bother to ask how I feel about laws passed to please christians that directly affect me, but are passed anyway because christianity is dominant and "part of our culture"?

  No, no one asks; because no one cares. Just like in this case. You think someone ASKED me how I feel about this? Of course not. No one asked me about buying beer on Sunday either; but I can't because of religious based Law that is Outdated. I suspect no one WILL ask me about it either. It is up to me to voice my complaint when there is something I dont like. Just as it is encumbent on you to speak up if something "directly affects" you. This particular thread is about forcing non-muslims to wear burkinis; not about Christian-based laws that upset you. (Or me.) Feel free to start a thread on that. I'm sure I will have points that I can agree with you on there.

[MISTER MASSACRE]

I think the more pressing question is when I'm going to see some of this sweet, sweet Muslim lady ass that's always being covered up.

[12AX7]

I think the more pressing question is when I'm going to see some of this sweet, sweet Muslim lady ass that's always being covered up.

Shhh.  Ulterior motives need not be exposed. 

[MISTER MASSACRE]

Shhh.  Ulterior motives need not be exposed. 

Unlike that sweet ass!

[Clear_Runway]

a minority of Christians actively and a majority passively continue to discriminate against gay people in much the same way as the muslims are perceived to discriminate women.

How do you passively discriminate against gays(or anyone else)? Are we somehow obligated to support them?

[phyre]

Okay, fine. But if we're going to have "Muslim Dress Swimming Hour", I insist on having "Free Strippers Skinny Dipping Hour" too. It's only fair.

[Wunderkind]

On another note, who the fuck came up with "Burkini"? My vote for one of the stupidest words ever.

I second that vote.

Okay, fine. But if we're going to have "Muslim Dress Swimming Hour", I insist on having "Free Strippers Skinny Dipping Hour" too. It's only fair.

I second this as well.

[xolik]

Can we all agree to hate "mankini" as well?

[Clear_Runway]

yes.