Topic: Life (Read 6155 times)

Crystalmonkey · « **on:** May 26, 2007, 02:27:59 AM »

My friend recently pointed this out to me and I thought it was interesting.

According to Wikipedia, the definition of life is:

Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally. A diverse array of living organisms can be found in the biosphere on Earth. Properties common to these organisms – plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria – are a carbon and water-based cellular form with complex organization and genetic information. They undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.

An entity with the above properties is considered to be a living organism, that is an organism that is alive hence can be called a life form. However, not every definition of life considers all of these properties to be essential. For example, the capacity for descent with modification is often taken as the only essential property of life. This definition notably includes viruses, which do not qualify under narrower definitions as they are acellular and do not metabolize. Broader definitions of life may also include theoretical non-carbon-based life and other alternative biology.

Some forms of artificial life, especially wet alife, might alternatively be classified as real life.

Given a minimalist definition, such as being able to reproduce, could a computer virus be considered alive? There are several viruses that can mutate and spawn a new virus when introduced to other viruses, and that seems to be "reproduction" at it's finest. If a virus could be considered life, what are the possible consequences.

Sorry, but classes have ended and I love a philosophical discussion.

Chris · « **Reply #1 on:** May 26, 2007, 10:59:20 AM »

Free will and reasoning skills are two other qualities that set us - and perhaps all other "living" creatures - apart from inorganic objects.

I say "perhaps" because it can be argued that much smaller life forms - such as single-celled organisms - seemingly lack the ability to base their decisions on free will, and also lack the ability to reason like we and other larger mammals can.

Additionally, by definition, a living organism must grow/mature via metabolism. Metabolism is, "the complete set of chemical reactions that occurs in living cells." However, there is nothing chemical happening when you read and write from a hard drive like a virus must do. You're simply changing the polarity of the sector on the disk.

I must admit, it would be pretty cool to one day have a truly man-made life form with a mind of its own walking around.

Evonus · « **Reply #2 on:** May 26, 2007, 01:57:26 PM »

The problem with computer viruses and any computer made mind is that it doesn't metabolize. The machine it enters does(computer) but since a computer virus needs nothing to live but a vulnerable file, which is nothing but stored information, it doesn't really consume anything from reality, including space. But I would say you may be right about the adaptation part.

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #3 on:** May 26, 2007, 02:46:57 PM »

Quote from: Evonus on May 26, 2007, 01:57:26 PM

The problem with computer viruses and any computer made mind is that it doesn't metabolize. The machine it enters does(computer) but since a computer virus needs nothing to live but a vulnerable file, which is nothing but stored information, it doesn't really consume anything from reality, including space. But I would say you may be right about the adaptation part.

There's the electricity expended, which is a resource of the system, so I suppose it would be Artificial Life, but still...

Evonus · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2007, 12:00:15 AM »

Quote from: Crystalmonkey on May 26, 2007, 02:46:57 PM

There's the electricity expended, which is a resource of the system, so I suppose it would be Artificial Life, but still...

It's not the actual virus that's using the electricity though, it's the machine that has the corrupted file that holds the virus. The Virus itself isn't actually consuming any of the power, even if it is directing the machines operations.

jeee · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2007, 06:35:33 PM »

Congrats, your first coherent post.

Agent_Tachyon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 27, 2007, 08:13:07 PM »

I don't think biological viruses are alive since they lack the ability to reproduce on their own.

Zephyr · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2007, 08:50:40 PM »

I don't think Wikipedia is credible enough to be used as the basis for defining life. It just seems silly.

Evonus · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2007, 11:05:06 PM »

Quote from: Zephyr on May 27, 2007, 08:50:40 PM

I don't think Wikipedia is credible enough to be used as the basis for defining life. It just seems silly.

The definition on Dictionary.com is quite similar.

Crystalmonkey · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2007, 11:58:30 PM »

Quote from: Chris on May 26, 2007, 10:59:20 AM

Free will and reasoning skills are two other qualities that set us - and perhaps all other "living" creatures - apart from inorganic objects.

Free Will and Reasoning separate US from other living creatures.

It can be easily argued that other living creatures DO NOT possess reason or free will. In order to have free will, you must be able to think in terms other than desire. (I.e. morally. I don't mean you have to be moral, I mean you have to be able to say "I want X but I'm not going to eat it because it's bad for me.")

Zephyr · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:38:27 PM »

Quote from: Agent_Tachyon on May 27, 2007, 08:13:07 PM

I don't think biological viruses are alive since they lack the ability to reproduce on their own.

Just because a virus can't reproduce on its own, doesn't mean it can't reproduce at all. It still has the ability to reproduce under the right circumstances. There's also some argument about whether viruses adapt to the environment or not, but if you look at it on a small scale environment (that of the human body which is always changing and developing new immunities), viruses do adapt and change to the environment of the body.

12AX7 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:59:37 PM »

I can't reproduce on my own, so YOU CAN'T KILL ME!!! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

d_money · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2007, 08:59:55 AM »

Quote from: Zephyr on May 27, 2007, 08:50:40 PM

I don't think Wikipedia is credible enough to be used as the basis for defining life. It just seems silly.

It’s not giving a definition of your life, or how to live it, just what it is scientifically. Seems reasonable enough to me

TeraHammer · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2007, 07:03:36 AM »

What I find is that to live, something needs to think for itself what to do. Free will has been mentioned before in this topic. Well, virus are only capable of manipulate living things and cannot think of their own. They have no "code of laws" as in a DNA string which an organism can find help on when engaging problems.

Agent_Tachyon · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2007, 06:57:33 PM »

Human beings follow the same basic rules, just a shitload more of them working in a complex system.

xolik · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2007, 11:56:46 PM »

Oh, life is bigger. It's bigger than you and you are not me.

TheJudge · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2007, 06:47:58 AM »

Scientifically speaking, if it beleives in God, then it's alive!

pbsaurus · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2007, 02:14:50 PM »

I remember that movie.

Agent_Tachyon · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2007, 02:37:02 PM »

I don't, which movie is it?

pbsaurus · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2007, 02:40:00 PM »

This movie

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12AX7