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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[Demosthenes]

*dredging up memory of Navy stuff*

FC == Fire Controlman, right?

As a nuke, I was an MM.  The job was actually kind of fun, most of the time.  At least until I was stationed on the Enterprise, then under the command of Captain Richard "Tricky Dick" Naughton (later Vice Admiral).  He made our lives a living hell, as if being a nuke on a carrier isn't bad enough to begin with.

[copperrein]

The Mobile Chernobyle? They're next to us. Man that thing is brown with rust. I feel sorry for the deck seamen on that ship. Still...it's really impressive. I've heard it's almost impossible to sleep well on those things because of the catapult.

if FC=fire_controman
    then TRUE

I'm on DDG 81...the Winston S. Churchill...
we hang out in England alot. Our captain is female, in fact the first female in command of a ship to see 'combat' action.  Hitting a little button and turning some keys doesn't seem like combat to me, but what ever. She is crazy...we call her the Nimbus 2000

I think the navy is a giant net that catches the usless geeks and makes them work....but that's my view...and this the opinions area.

[Demosthenes]

The Mobile Chernobyle? They're next to us.

OMFGLOL!!!!  They STILL call her "The Mobile Chernobyl"?  

Some nicknames never die.  Another popular nick for the Big E is "The Pig", though I think you might have to be part of her crew to know that one.

Man that thing is brown with rust. I feel sorry for the deck seamen on that ship. Still...it's really impressive. I've heard it's almost impossible to sleep well on those things because of the catapult.

That's a true statement.  The berthing area I called home was all the way aft, right under the flight deck.  Planes landed directly over our heads, sometimes all day and all night.  Made for a great time when you only have four hours to sleep before having to be back down in the plant for 15 hours.  

Anyway, so you're in Norfolk, huh?  I lived there after I was out of the Navy as well.  Right by the Norfolk airport... the same exit off of I-64, in fact.  When I was first stationed there I lived in Newport News way up Warwick (about 5 minutes from Fort Useless), because the Enterprise was in the yards at the time.

Newport News is a shithole, for the most part.

[halofyre]

This is a bad place to start of a posting career, but I feel strongly about this.

I am not pro-war, or anti-war -  I'm humble in the sense that I know that I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about. I know SHIT about real goverment operations, or the "REAL" reasons anyone is going to war. All I can do is speculate, but I don't have the audacity to tell anyone whats what - only what I personally believe.

I believe that there are several reasons Bush decided to declare war on Iraq. His suspicions concerning the prescence of weapons is one reason, many people believe oil is another. A third reason is that the people in Iraq are divided in support of a dictator, people are being murdered in the streets, and having the beliefs of their leader opressed upon them.

So those are some things that I believe. I have spent time talking to many friends, some of which have lived in such places as Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Israel, and even Iran, and my discussions with these individuals have helped to formulate my opinion.

One person in particular, the gentleman who was born and raised in Iran. He said that he wished that it had not had to end in war, he felt that the U.S. Government was doing what it needed to do. He looked at me and asked me frankly, "Do you like your way of life?"

I replied that I did, because i DO. I like living in Canada, being a student. I don't have any problems living in a capitalist society. I like free health care. I'm free to beleive what i like, go where I please, be what I wish to be. I told him that I liked my way of life very much.

He then pointed out to me that my way of life had already begun to change because of the things that were happening in not only Iraq, but because of general terrorism.  Slowly, almost unnoticeably, the actions of other people begin to infringe on our life. Before, when I wanted to go to the states, I needed only photo I.D. Recently, Canadians now face a lot of hassles entering the states - we need passports, and answers to a lot of questions. We all go through long waits in airports, we take of our shoes, and hand in our tweezers. It seems frivolous and useless and stupid, but it's still change. I'm sure if you can rack your brains, you will come up with other ways our way of life has been changed, and will continue to change if people like Saddam Hussien are in a position of power.

Because he's just a shitty guy - he's a tyrant. If I have to choose between George Bush and Saddam Hussien in a "who's a better guy" or a "who do i trust" contest, you can bet I'm going to side with the man who HASN'T committed genocide in the last ten years. That alone is reason enough to remove him from power.

Now before you go and jump and say "GEORGE BUSH IS THE BIGGEST TERRORIST OF ALL" or that AMERICA TERRORIZES EVERYONE or sport statistics about who sold warheads to who, I know all of that. People all over the world have had their lives changed by the actions of other people. But it has to start somewhere.

A lot of people like to talk about the concept of "pre-emptive strike". We talk about the fact that Saddam really hasn't done anything yet, and we're punishing him.

Hitler wrote Mein Kampf many many years before the Holocaust began, but it outlined roughly, what he wanted to do. But he didn't do anything. There isn't a person alive who doesn't wish that someone had read between the lines, thought a little, and used a little pre-emptive action.

I don't know wether these reasons are valid or not, but I would have to ask myself, and everyone else one question: Would you want to live in Iraq? Would you have wanted to live in Iraq 3 years ago? 5 years ago? 10? 15 even. If you say yes, I would encourage you to think quite carefully. I wouldn't want to live there, i can assure you that. But I can't hide behind my wealthy and powerful government and simply say "Too bad for the people that live there now, it's none of my business...", I'm going to be one of the black sheep and say "I think that the civillians and citizens in Iraq need a new leader. They need help, and freedom."

I don't think war, bombs, and mass destruction is the answer. America should not have dropped bombs, or murdered people. But something had to be done, and I'm not afraid to say that.

But I really don't know anything about much at all - I have not taken a degree in history or politics, and know very little about the way the world works. So who am I to talk.

[Anonymous]

He then pointed out to me that my way of life had already begun to change because of the things that were happening in not only Iraq, but because of general terrorism.  Slowly, almost unnoticeably, the actions of other people begin to infringe on our life. Before, when I wanted to go to the states, I needed only photo I.D. Recently, Canadians now face a lot of hassles entering the states - we need passports, and answers to a lot of questions. We all go through long waits in airports, we take of our shoes, and hand in our tweezers. It seems frivolous and useless and stupid, but it's still change. I'm sure if you can rack your brains, you will come up with other ways our way of life has been changed, and will continue to change if people like Saddam Hussien are in a position of power.

Now there's an angle you didn't hear about much 6 months ago. I like that.

[biggyfred]

I would agree that something should have been done about Saddam.

I would argue that it's not the US's problem, however. The western world gets pissy cause we're up in others' business, yet they clearly cannot handle it. Does that make it our problem by default? And can someone explain the difference between him and Taylor in Liberia? Or any of the other slew of nasty characters running states in today's world?


I think that our first priority should be the dismantling of Al Queda and the furthering of the peace process in the Middle East. I think both would contribute more directly to our best interests, and last time I checked, the only interests my government was here to serve was mine. Afghanistan's already backsliding, Al Queda seems to be getting a stronger foothold in the Pacific/Indian ocean area, yet our troops are tied up in Iraq on what is essentially a humanitarian effort dressed up as the war on terror.

I wouldn't have had a problem with deposing Saddam, but not until what I consider to be more pressing issues to US national security had been addressed, which is the point of our standing military.

Would you want to live in Iraq? Would you have wanted to live in Iraq 3 years ago? 5 years ago? 10? 15 even.

I would rather live in Iraq's worst day than the Congo's best day. Yet I don't hear a single soul anywhere advocating military force in the Congo. I don't understand why not.

That's a killer b&w photo in your avatar.

[Demosthenes]

What biggy said.


Additionally, North Korea?  Sierra Leone?  Libya?  Pakistan?  Cuba?  China?

Bueller?


Hellll-LO?  Dictators?  Why haven't we gone after them too?

[Anonymous]

Hellll-LO?  Dictators?  Why haven't we gone after them too?

YEAH!!! Let's go! CHARGE!!!!

[halofyre]

That's a killer b&w photo in your avatar.

Thank you. It was a self portrait for school.

I agree with all your points, I agree with everyone's points regarding other places that need help and aid.

I think you'll find we are all on the same wavelegnth, and I do not wish to ignore these situations.

But i get tired of listening to people who for lack of serious thoughts or honest answeres simply take the majority side. I wanted to be the Devil's Advocate.  

[pseudonymph]

<I'm not even gonna read this thread.>



I would much rather live in some third world country though!  

[Anonymous]

Come live in Canadia with me eh!

[biggyfred]

And for the record, I don't approve of agreeing with Demo as I apparently just have. You just can't trust those goddamn libertarians. His airtight logic is nothing more than the whims of the pied piper taking you away from your true position of greatness, that being a bed-wetting liberal.

 

[Demosthenes]

It's not completely airtight.  There are holes.  You just have to look a bit harder for them.

[biggyfred]

Oh, I know. But when I was clueless to Libertarian themes, it seemed airtight.

[Demosthenes]

You also must be aware that I take some positions because I have to, for consistency's sake...

Take my position on abortion, for example.  I find abortion morally abhorrant.  However, I would be inconsistent if I insisted on using government to push that particular moral belief on others, so I firmly stand on the "Pro-Choice" side of the issue.

[Binoboy]

It's not completely airtight.  There are holes.  You just have to look a bit harder for them.

Ayn Rand would agree!