Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Davidfak]

• <a href="https://www.port... by Davidfak
  [Yesterday at 08:59:28 PM]
• <a href="https://www.port... by Davidfak
  [Yesterday at 07:52:26 PM]
• <a href="https://www.port... by Davidfak
  [Yesterday at 01:37:16 PM]
• <a href="https://www.port... by Davidfak
  [Yesterday at 12:26:58 AM]
• cp loli by BobbyNof
  [May 06, 2024, 02:51:48 AM]
• <a href="https://www.port... by Davidfak
  [May 06, 2024, 02:47:41 AM]

Members

• Total Members: 4950
• Latest: Alexistig

Stats

• Total Posts: 129618
• Total Topics: 7184
• Online Today: 129
• Online Ever: 1013
• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[reimero]

I'm going to come flat out and say it, too: that sort of post is a real wet blanket on serious discussion. I dont know who you were actually pointing that racist comment at, as most of us on this board are Americans; and I myself am about the farthest thing from racist as one can be, but that post basically shouts "If you disagree with me; STFU, you racist!" That doesn't really encourage people to get involved in the discussion.

You can feel how you want, but I stand by my words and claims.  You can disagree, but I still reserve the right to think you're racist.

[12AX7]

See, this is what I'm talking about. You dont have a clue WHAT I think. I actually DONT disagree with what the first part of your post says. If you were a bit more into DISCUSSING instead of assuming and name-calling, you probably could've learned that.

[12AX7]

By the way; I ask again - who is making the "leeching off society" claims? Or "tax" claims? Could you please point us to the source of your negative opinion of me?

[reimero]

The very short answer is that in most cases when discussing illegals, issues of tax dollars and leeching off society come into play.  And I think it all started here:

My tax dollars are expendable on fraudulent "citizenship" claims.

That's where the discussion of taxes started in this thread.  You may say apples and oranges, but that is where taxes came up.

You want to know why they don't try to get legal?  Because it's usually not worth the hassle.  Because this country is so punitive when it comes to that sort of thing that if you show up inside the country and try to get legal, you've got better than 50-50 odds that they'll simply dump you over the border and tell you to go through channels over there, even though you're already here.

If you're the federal government or one of the "throw 'em all back" people, all you see are Mexicans (yes, Mexicans) who don't speak a word of English jumping over the border and running for the nearest settlement so they can disappear into the great void.  You're handily ignoring those who entered legally but who, for whatever reason, had their visas or green cards expire or had paperwork lost in the shuffle or whatnot, and who are now caught up in that exact same situation.

[12AX7]

The very short answer is that in most cases when discussing illegals, issues of tax dollars and leeching off society come into play.

So instead of discussing and finding out what Im about; you assume I'm a racist because....?

  And I think it all started here:
That's where the discussion of taxes started in this thread.  You may say apples and oranges, but that is where taxes came up.

Apples and oranges? What? Ya lost me on that cliche.

The taxes. Yes. I believe I already explained that. But since it is seeming you apparently haven't read exactly what I posted, I'll quote it again. (you can check earlier in the thread to be sure I haven't edited it after the fact)

Yes. Tax; as in this ("intermittent" law enforcement; arrest me, but not illegal aliens) is something I myself have to actually PAY for.  So it IS relevant to the subject; for me.

There you go. >>>"MY"<<< tax dollars; and what I do not want them spent on. I haven't said a word about anyone else's taxes; OR whether or not anyone else is paying or not. So I'm gonna ask you AGAIN to point out how I fit into your preconcieved notion. And -please- come up with SOMETHING other than the one line in the entire thread followed by a fucking sarcasm flag.

You want to know why they don't try to get legal?  Because it's usually not worth the hassle.  Because this country is so punitive when it comes to that sort of thing that if you show up inside the country and try to get legal, you've got better than 50-50 odds that they'll simply dump you over the border and tell you to go through channels over there, even though you're already here.

Riiiight. And the solution is to not have a discussion and simply call people racist. You realize that -so far- that's the ONLY IDEA you've had in this thread? To call someone a racist?
 If you'd read the entire content of my posts, you have found this tidbit:

   The solution lies in fixing the causal conditions; ie., revamping the immigration application/grant process; NOT in amnesty for breaking the law.

An idea for a possible solution. This is a first step; not calling someone a racist and refusing to even read what they've written.
 

You're handily ignoring those who entered legally but who, for whatever reason, had their visas or green cards expire or had paperwork lost in the shuffle or whatnot, and who are now caught up in that exact same situation.

And how am I handily doing that? Please explain.
 It seems to me you're handily ignoring the content of just about ALL of my posts, save the one line marked with a sarcasm flag.

[reimero]

If you read what I wrote, I said I reserve the right to consider you racist, mostly because you jumped to the conclusion that I said you were racist.  Instead, I said racism was the unspoken motive behind the illegal immigration debate.

If you then infer I'm talking about you, then you're free to infer that I consider you a racist.  The fact remains, based on what I'm reading, you want to see your tax dollars (and my tax dollars) spent rounding up suspected illegals and "dealing with" them.  The only halfway realistic way to do this is by means of racial profiling.  This means that everyone who even looks Hispanic will have to carry proof of legal residency in the US at all times - including, say, my fiancee's half-Korean nephew, who could easily be mistaken for a Mexican.

You never refute that you distinguish between illegal entries and those who entered legally but are no longer legal.  In the latter cases, quite frequently dumping them over the border is dangerously close to a human rights violation because they're being removed from their actual homes and are literally left homeless on the streets in a country to which the only connection they have is a passport.

[12AX7]

I said I reserve the right to consider you racist, mostly because you jumped to the conclusion that I said you were racist.

Um...no, I didn't. (man, you gotta READ the posts):

...I dont know who you were actually pointing that racist comment at, as most of us on this board are Americans; and I myself am about the farthest thing from racist as one can be, but that post basically shouts "If you disagree with me; STFU, you racist!" That doesn't really encourage people to get involved in the discussion.

My entire point in that post is that your post is bad for discussion. A "wet blanket".

  Instead, I said racism was the unspoken motive behind the illegal immigration debate.

No; you called me a racist.

You can feel how you want, but I stand by my words and claims.  You can disagree, but I still reserve the right to think you're racist.

If you then infer I'm talking about you, then you're free to infer that I consider you a racist.

Oh! Ok. It's MY fault if you dont read my actual words and assume I'm racist based on -so far- NOTHING that you've been able to point to.

  The fact remains, based on what I'm reading, you want to see your tax dollars (and my tax dollars) spent rounding up suspected illegals and "dealing with" them.

Lol. The only apparent FACT here is you actually HAVEN'T read what I've posted.

... The idea of deporting millions of people is ridiculous. Many- if not MOST of these people
are embedded in American society. To rip that out would leave a devastating wound to the very society such
an action would profess to be helping.

<snip>

Why not -when discovered during the normal course of .."things"(ie., spend no more resources to find and round up
otherwise law-abiding illegals)[/u]- sentence an illegal to, I don't know; say, 5 years of community service, obviously
with no further legal infractions; learning English (this would be at taxpayer expense, obviously, but I can think of
much worse things being purchased now. I - myself - wouldn't mind my tax dollars spent to help someone who
wants to be here get up to speed on how we do things here [as in, speaking English]), and , upon successful completion
of the sentence; be granted permanent residency with no indication of their former illegal status. As far as we're
concerned; by that time they belong here as much as you and I.

Dude, I know you're a waaaay smarter person than this; please go back and read my posts and try to understand them.

[reimero]

TLDR

[12AX7]

What is that?

[reimero]

Too Long Didn't Read

[12AX7]

Thanks for making my point.

[reimero]

You had a point?

[12AX7]

Yeh, ok. So maybe I was wrong about the waaay smrtr part.

[reimero]

No, you were right about that.  You just made the mistake of assuming I actually cared about your opinion.

[12AX7]

 No, the mistake I made was thinking you were smart enough to read before posting and making yourself look like an idiot.

[Vespertine]

I'm officially calling a timeout!

[MISTER MASSACRE]

Actually, everyone is kicked out of this thread. We've found some Mexicans who are willing to make these arguments way cheaper. Sorry everyone.

[Demosthenes]

Not cheap enough.  I've officially outsourced the arguments relegated to the cheaper Mexicans to an outsourcing firm in India.  You should all be getting an unintelligable phone call from one of their representatives momentarily.

[Vespertine]

This level of passion and not listening is why I originally wanted this topic to be so narrow (14th amendment, remember?).  I can't spreak about other states, but in Arizona there is almost NO reasoned discourse about illegal immigration.  If you guys want to continue an illegal immigration conversation, I'm fine with that.  If you want to take it back to the original topic, I'm fine with that too.  Either way, let's make an effort to be civil to each other about it.

[MISTER MASSACRE]

You should all be getting an unintelligable phone call from one of their representatives momentarily.

Sorry, but the phone calls were getting pricey. I've outsourced the phones to cans on strings.

[MISTER MASSACRE]

Either way, let's make an effort to be civil to each other about it.

Sorry, being civil to each other has been outsourced to a British children's cartoon.

[Demosthenes]

That's it.  I'm hijacking this thread and taking it to Bermuda.

And none of you can stop me.

[12AX7]

This level of passion and not listening is why I originally wanted this topic to be so narrow (14th amendment, remember?).  I can't spreak about other states, but in Arizona there is almost NO reasoned discourse about illegal immigration.  If you guys want to continue an illegal immigration conversation, I'm fine with that.  If you want to take it back to the original topic, I'm fine with that too.  Either way, let's make an effort to be civil to each other about it.

As far as the ballot initiative itself; I agree totally with you. No entity should initiate anything in direct conflict with established constitutional law; and I believe it is dangerous when they do. If the public cant depend on elected authority to abide by laws and processes, public trust and respect in authority erodes; crime escalates.
  However; there is a mechanism for change, and I believe this is one I could support. I support our naturalization laws for the most part; although I would recommend an amendment to the 14th which excluded children born here while their parents are here illegally. This would close this "loophole" incentive to arrive here illegally and start a family. As it stands now, although it is portrayed as a positive - the net effect of naturalizing illegals' children is either distress to the family if the parents are deported; or acceptance (amnesty) that the parents broke - and are continuing to violate- the law.

[12AX7]

I love Bermuda!
Wanna go diving there...

[Demosthenes]

I love Bermuda!
Wanna go diving there...

Excellent.  Hopefully this thread has enough fuel in it to make it there.

Wait.  I should really make that one of my demands.