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• (January 12, 2023, 01:18:11 AM)

[12AX7]

So when a horse 'goes lame', or otherwise hurts it's foot or leg in anyway, we just kill it. Is this actually the best thing that can be done? If so, can someone please explain how that is possible? I understand the horse would never run or carry a rider again, but is there absolutely NO procedure or anything else to do? This is 2008. We have people in space in an ongoing basis, we can figure out the composition of bodies light years away, we have AIRCRAFT, for crying out loud, individual personal mobile communications (yes, young'uns; that is "really something" to us old geezers. I can remember rotary dial. <--notice the 'period'. As in JUST rotary dial.), swap out organs successfully daily, and on and on. We cant patch a horse leg up? Weird Tingly Feeling?
 OR . . .
 does it just "cost too much"? If this is the only real reason that can be posited; we suck.

 Again; I understand the animal would never again be "useful" -as we see it- to humans again, but damn. That aint any reason to just up and off the poor critter. I can think of a shitload of real people we could "put down" simply for not being "useful".
 Or would the animal just be in ungodly, severe, pain all the time? I seem to recall an analogy of the weight one horse's leg carries on impact; it said it would be similar (physics-wise) as balancing your entire body on your middle finger. Still, it would seem to me that there could be SOMEthing done besides just kill it. Design a splint that carries the weight, instead of the horse's leg; possibly attaching above the ankle...
 I dunno. I just don't like the idea of just killing an animal because of a non-fatal (in itself) wound.

[Wunderkind]

Depends.

Tiny word, big explanation.

Actually a lame horse can be very useful as a "buddy" to a high-strung or tramatized horse. They act like therapy to each other.

What the matter really depends on is a) how much pain the horse will be in, and b) how bad the break is.

Horses are essentially 1500 lb barrels walking around on toothpicks. Their legs are extremely frail. If it is a minor fracture it can be patched up well enough and the horse might have a slight painless limp. Unfortunately, the break is rarely ever a minor fracture, because like I said, toothpicks. Quick, grab a toothpick and break in half, does it break clean? No, it splinters, and that's what a horse's leg will usually do too. It doesn't just break, it shatters like some sort of glass sculpture damaging not only the bones and the tissue around them, but usually doing permanent nerve damage too. Most horses who are "rescued" from a "mercy killing" are living in agony. They have to be jacked up on pain killers 24/7 for the rest of their lives.

Now I am not of the belief that a horse should be shot just because it's convenient for your wallet, but I have seen horses loose legs before, and it's never been pretty. I do think some serious thought should go into the matter before the decision is made. If the horse can be repaired, will it be in pain for the rest of it's life? Usually the answer is yes, just due to the nature of the animal. If you don't mind jacking the animal up on all sorts of drugs or watching it limp around in pain all day, by all means, patch it up. Then again, I've seen vets be horribly wrong on their diagnosis before. I've also seen what sort of hack job a leg patch can be. They don't train vets to be artists, and that's what's needed for the delicate structure of a horse's leg.

Also consider that when a horse breaks its leg there usually other complications like dislocated shoulders, twisted spines, cracked hooves, torn neck ligaments and I even had one horse go down under a racing barrel and rip a chest muscle. Everything on a horse is connected to everything else, there is never just one problem. One problem usually is an ear mark of a load of them. (Show me a horse with a few missing teeth and I'll show you a horse with gout, asthma and a history of early onset arthritis.)

In the end, it's not really a matter of wallet or horse. It's a matter of seriously considering the animals life and what it will be like after the fact. As a trainer, it's really hard to swallow killing the animal, but I'll be blunt. Given the options, it may not be the ideal, but it is sometimes the best. (Especially when they do a short stop dive into a fence and crush more than one leg.)

EDIT: As a reply to your comment about lame horse not carrying people, most lame horses have a weight limit, like 50 lbs, for a certain amount of time, like 30 minutes, that they don't mind bearing, making them great therapy horses or starters for young children (temperment and training not withstanding, of course).

[12AX7]

Hmm. Excellent information. I see where it could be best. One time I'm glad I don't have horses.



 

[Wunderkind]

It's like deciding to kill a dear friend.
Believe me, everytime a trainer has to do it, we go out and get shit faced and do something stupid. There's a running joke out there that that's how bull-riding got started. Some shit-faced crazy-stupid depressed cowboy needed to do something dumb that night.

[dcrog]

If you're talking about the Eight Belles incident this clip will also help give a little more understanding of the problems with two broken legs.

http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=242189

It's a sad thing, but it happens.

[12AX7]

Yeh, I was still kinda upset a bit about that; I realize it has to be done sometimes. In actuality; ('specially after reading W's posts) my hat goes off to anybody who has to make that call. That would be some tough stuff to handle.

[xolik]

That's what you get for sending a woman in to do a man's job.


Window seat, please.

[Jaepheth]

I have to admit, my first thought upon reading the title was that "the wallet" referred to leather product made from horses.

[Wunderkind]

That's what you get for sending a woman in to do a man's job.


Window seat, please.

You better run, boy.

*cocks shotgun

Yeah, I wondered if another racehorse had gotten fucked up and if that was what spawned this.
Damn Thoroughbreds, clumsy as shit, not to mention it's like riding a glass sculpture, "Oops, it broke." Give me a Morgan or Quarter anyday, at least they stop automatically when something's wrong instead of continuing to run on two broken ankles. Her name should have been Eight Dumbass Stubborn Belles.
... I'm stopping now, because I could on and on about the pros and cons of horsebreeds forever.

[pbsaurus]

Which bread makes the best glue?

* pbsaurus bolts

[12AX7]

Which bread makes the best glue?

* pbsaurus bolts

lol...  Wunderbread?

[Wunderkind]

You can make glue from bread?



EDIT: Frighteningly enough there is a legitimate answer to that question, pb. Apparently, breeds where "socks" do not occur, since "white" or pigmentless hooves provide a poor quality glue. Eh... I can't believe I actually expended the energy looking up an answer to that. 

[xolik]

You better run, boy.

*cocks shotgun

COCKS LOL

[12AX7]

    and that should probably be " boi "...

[pbsaurus]

How about which breed of horse?

[Wunderkind]

If I had to guess randomly, Quarter.

However, something tells me there was a prepositional phrase that was left out of that question, I'm just too tired to assume which one.

[12AX7]

Well, Im gonna do it anyway; if she wants me to take it down, I will. 

 Wunderkind spent a lot of time putting together an article explaining, well, horses, basically, and the different breeds and roles. I thought it was a well-written, very informative piece of work, so I PMed her asking if I could post it; she hasnt answered yet, but I cant wait, lol. 




  Horses can survive a load of heavy injuries in the wild without even flinching, but they have one mega weak spot, and that is their legs. I've heard of horses loosing entire muscle groups and going on and living happy full lives, but they blow out a bone in their leg and it's all over. The reason is that the only thing their legs do is hold them up off the ground.

When I say horses are delicate, I'm not trying to say their not powerful. They are. A Fjord Pony can pull four times his own weight (that is to say, for the same about of wieght you hitch two Morgan Standards up to, you only need one Fjord). However, a horse's power is not in their legs, it's in their chest, back, shoulders, and thighs. If you take a good close look at a horse's leg you'll see there's not a whole lot of muscle there, it's mostly bone and ligament.
 

Rather gruesmose image of rear left leg damaged most likely by barbed wire. You can see how easy it is for a cut to reach the bone. You can also see how little muscle the legs possess.

The legs of a horse don't actually have any strength of their own, but are powered by the shoulders and thighs, much like the pistons of your car engine. These large muscle groups of the back and shoulders are what provides all those romantic images in our heads of "rippling muscles" and "beautiful strength". A well rounded horse will have even strength in both the shoulders and the rear muscles and good strong back.

Like all vehicles, certain breeds (or brands) have certain attributes. If I want something very powerful that can haul heavy loads or work long hours, I have to look into the heavy duty classes. In the horse world, we call these classes "drafts". Draft horses have a huge amount of power and more muscles in their actual legs surrounding the leg bones. This allows them to be stronger in the long term although their muscle bound legs make them slower.

 "Shire" Horses are the classic draft horse, originally bred to ride into battle at full speed carrying knights loaded with armor. While they are not remarkably intelligent, Shires are incredibly loyal,trusting, and diligent. They will run through a brick wall unless they are told to stop.

The more strength a horse has in their shoulder in relation to their rear the more flexible and more manuverable the animal will be. These horses make excellent "dressage" candidates due to their ability to turn sharply and swiftly and their potential for grace. These more "graceful" horses are often loyal, but will have a hard time following orders as they tend to think for themselves. Shoulder-strength horses are hard workers with a high endurance but delicate rear legs that can be twisted easily in a fall.

 The essential "cowboy's horse" the Quarter has an immense amount of shoulder strength, making it the perfect horse for cutting and herding which requires a sure-footed, quick, manuverable mount with a high level of intelligence. The Quarter earned it's 'funny' name due it's ability to clear 1/4 miles in less than a minute. It is the drag racer of horses.

A horse that is fast, either in the sprint or the marathon is a horse that needs long, slender legs that can move quickly and powerful shoulder and rear muscles to move them. Behold the Thoroughbred:

It is joked by cowboys that a Thoroughbred is not a horse. It's a set of four legs given the brain of a woman.
Thoroughbreds were bred to race. From the very beginning the only thought that was put into them was speed. They are often high-strung and nervous natured. They are like hyper and competative children. Their fine bone structure means that they are light and quick, unfortunately it also means they are very breakable. Like Arabians, they are fast and capable of high-endurance speed, but should they step wrong or stumble, it will spell doom.

 The sure-footed, high-endurance legacy of the Arabian has made it a creature of myth and lore. Unfortunately, this small desert racer does not have the size to clear the strides of the tall, lanky Thoroughbred and the two rarely compete against each other.

  When the fine bones of a horses legs break, they splinter and shatter like glass. Even if they are reconstructed, the fractures will weaken the legs ability to uphold the massive amounts of weight demanded by the horse's bulk. Because the leg themselves do not have any major muscle groups, they do not have any power of their own, and their only strength is in the ligaments surrounding the bones, these ligaments are often torn or destroyed when the fragile bones break. Although reconstruction surgery is available, often it is complicated and the follow up procedures are long. The artistic work necessary is over shadowed by the immense pain that comes with the healing, and the healing may never come. Usually, in major breaks, the leg is unable to heal completely, since the horse cannot be banished to bed-rest like a human. They must be up-right, and even with a sling in place, sometimes, it just doesn't work out.

 This picture shows the pins and braces required to correct a broken front ankle.

This may all seem very comprehensive, but it is only the tip of the iceberg. In fact, it's a chip in your iced tea, off the ice-berg. Since the anatomy of a horse controls its place in the world, it often has a huge affect on its behaviour as well, and how a person will train it, and interact with it.

It's a common mistake for someone to say, "She only slipped a little on the path, it can't possibly be that bad." Just remember that what might have been a little slip in your 180(something)lb eyes, was actually, a 1500(something)lb slip and the damage increases in relation to the mass.

Food for thought.

By the way, this is my subject. This is where I am most comfortable, so if you have any other curiosities, I'm more than happy to answer and explain. 

[12AX7]

Ok, so what about shoes? Why does a horse suddenly need them when we get ahold of them? (Im pretty sure wild horses go barefoot... err... hoofed). Is it like the country kid and the city kid playing outside in the summer? (The country kid is always barefooted, and never has any problems. The city kid only has bare feet in the bathtub; and soon as he takes his shoes off to run with his country cousin; he cuts his foot wide open...)

[Wunderkind]

I don't know about well-written, I just spotted like ten grammatical errors I want to go back and change now. 

Shoes! O yay! Picture!


All the terms I'm about to give you are trainer slang, not farrier jargon so don't go around using them like you're the horse shoe god, but, clockwise from the upper left, "full", "full", "frogged", "open", and "tabbed".

a. Bulb of Heel b. Cleft of Frog c. Bar d. Frog e. Lateral Sulcus f. Hoof wall g. Sole


The main purpose of horseshoes is to prevent chipping and flaking of hooves on horses that traverse gravel or paved roads on a daily basis. I mentioned in an earlier post that horses with "socks" have weaker hooves, some horse may develop chronic "splitting" much like a woman's broken nail, this can be prevented by the use of shoes.

Splitting or Cracking


As you can see in the image above, splitting and cracking can happen Regardless, but the presence of a shoe helps to reduce the occassion. Shoes are most commonly worn by horses with a pre-disposition to this, horses that work in wet environment, or horses that encounter paved or rocky roads for more than two hours a day. "Socks" are the biggest indicator of a predisposition to splitting or cracking.

Socks


I'm sure at some point in your childhood you heard an endearing tale about a horse with this or that many socks and how it was so sweet blah, blah, blah. In real life, socks on a horse are not that endearing. 99.99% a white sock means a white hoof, like the one in the picutre above. A white hoof is pigmentless, and therefor (and there is a long medical explanation for this, but I'm not going into right now) it is inherently weaker than a 'black' hoof (actually it's a gray or brown hoof, but we all call it 'black' anyway). This weakness means you can look forward to a lifetime of frequent chipping. It also means your horse will be more prone to ailments like thrush. Thrush is the evil curse of the damp environment that eats your horse from the feet up. [/rant] Putting a tabbed shoe on the horse (like the one in the third image) may help prevent the chipping and splitting which can be painful and even put your horse off her feet. Not only can be painful if it's bad enough, but it can open up a passage way for bacteria to get into the hoof if they happen to live or work in wet earth often, leading to the evil monster that is trush.

Wet Environment

A rubber shoe like this one can prevent slipping when the horse is working on wet pavement or wet slick surfaces often. Other shoes have a rubber webbing that stretches across the entire bottom of the hoof under the metal shoe to prevent wetness from coming into contact with the frog, softening the hoof and shortening the lifespan of the horse.
When a horse works under wet conditions two dangers come into play. Slipping and softening. If a horse works on wet pavement all day, their hard hooves can slip easily and as was discussed in a previous post, a tiny slip is not so tiny when you weigh upwards of half a ton. Should the wet conditions persist (think England), a condition called softening occurs. Softening of any part of the hoof is bad, it can lead to all manner of horrible diseases since the harden outer shell of the hoof is compromised. To prevent softening there are a multitude of creative shoes, even little rain boots, but finding the ones that work for horse can be challenging since some horses don't tolerate things hanging off their feet.

On a side note: Softening and Thrush also the reasons behind changing the beeding in the stalls often. The uric acid combined with the bacteria in the droppings can be terrible for the animal in situartions where they have to stand in it for days on end.


General Wear and Tear:
Although, as 12 so diligently pointed out, most horses do not require shoes in the wild, it is important to notice some lifestyle differences. First, let me calm the fears of the animal lovers out there, horses are social, they want to be around other safe animals, the more of them there are the better, the safer they are the merrier. Yes, it is hard work living with us, but the food is free and they get daily companionship (or they should, *puts away soap box for a later time*). Many horses willingly pull on their boots (no pun intended), and go to work every morning because that's what John is doing and I'd rather work with John then be left in the barn by myself. And no, it is not possible to physically work a horse to death, a horse that feels overwork will simply stop. And arrogant sonofbitch who doesn't know what's good for him will then beat the animal to death. But a horse whose spirit hasn't been cracked down, will simply stop at the end of his shift Regardless of how you feel about it, it's dinnertime damn it.

As horses live with us there is a lot of stress put on their hooves that isn't normally there. Grinding through gravel and pacing across asphalt are not things that happen in nature. Along with the little stones that get jammed up between the Lateral Sulcus and the Hoof Wall, little bits of the hoof will chip off from just plain labor. Small chips and flakes are meaningless, and normal, since the only exposed surface of the hoof that "feels" is the frog. But major cracks can split right up into the area that harbours nerves and can cause alot of pain. Liken it to you fignernails. Small flakes you just peel off and keep going. Large cracks, however, feel like someone ripped your whole finger off. Now, imagine having to walk on it. Not fun, huh?

In cases like rodeo horses, you aren't likely to see shoes, since they spend all day in sand and dirt. However, in situations as with mounted police, or 'recreational' horses that are using for shoes and teaching, where the horse encounters hard or gravel surfaces often, you will see shoes and the need for them. There's nothing like having to stop everything because of that sickening little "hiccup" in your horse's gait, get down, walk her around in a circle, and start inspecting hooves to see what just happened.

There's a lot of arguement about just how necessary shoes are, but it really comes down to the horse and it's lifestyle with you. If I work as a carriage driver in New York, you can bet your boots I'm shoeing my horses with rubber shoes. It's safer and gentler on their feet, kinda like giving them treads. But I work as a trainer in the country so the only time I shoe is if the horse shows signs of a genetic disposition to cracking, then I'll probably go tabbed or frogged depending on where the cracking occurs (tabbed for cracking at the toes, frogged for cracking at the heels).
Ever-Present Wiki Link

EDIT: I forgot to throw in a nod to cankers and foundering. Cankers (no, that's not plural, your horse has "cankers") is a mysterious hoof disease that they haven't quite pinned down a reason on yet, but since it is an earmark of abuse, it's probably got something to do with diet or living conditions. "Foundering" is a word that is used to label any hoof condition that a trainer doesn't exactly know what it is, we just know it's bad and the vet should be called to come sort it out. Until he sorts it out, the horse is "foundering" or "foundered".

EDIT EDIT: Forgot the nod to farriers too. Having a visit by the farrier 'round about every three months will do wonders for a horse's feet. Or you can learn how to give equine manicures yourself, it's not hard (well, it is physically hard, you've got to trim the hoof wall which takes manly-man power, but it's not hard to learn). Farriers are also the dudes who make and put on the shoes. Shoes have to be made special for each horse so they fit right, so farriers must know blacksmithing. We like them... a lot.

[Wunderkind]

Oh sweet gods, the things you notice AFTER you hit post. To appease the sensitive animal lovers:

It should be pointed out that the nails that are used to hold the shoe to the foot DO NOT HURT! The nails should be too small and too short to reach far enough up into the hoof to hit nerve. If the shoe is applied properly, the nails are put in at an angle, piercing through the outer wall where they are bent and rasped until smooth to outer wall of the hoof. This way, the farrier can be certain that the nails do not go up into the nerves of the hoof.

Also, when "fitting" the shoes, the metal (if the shoes are metal other steps are taken for rubber) is heated until maliable then "branded" onto the hoof to ensure that it is second-skin tight. Again, this DOES NOT HURT! The only part of the underside of the hoof that can "feel" is the frog and the heat of the shoe should never touch the frog, so it may feel warm to the horse, but there is no pain.

[Vespertine]

I recognize that x-ray...it's Barbaro's.

Something else that's impotant to note (I didn't see it in the above explanations) is that when a horse breaks a leg/ankle in such a way that the skin is broken (a compund fracture), there is an almost immediate contamination that is very difficult (if not impossible) to overcome.  According to the articles I've read, in the case of Eight Belles, she broke both her front legs AND at least one of the legs was a compund fracture; the wound was contaminated.