The Geek Forum
Main Forums => Political Opinions => Topic started by: 12AX7 on October 29, 2008, 02:42:33 PM
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From Sunday's Televised 'Meet the Press' Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag. Obama Explains National Anthem Stance Sun, 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain why he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
The General also stated to the Senator that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. At the very least, 'Stand and Face It'
Senator Obama Live on Sunday states:
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking
sides, Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American
flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message.
You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something
less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song, “I'd Like To Teach the World To
Sing.” If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.'We should consider to
reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our
enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the
level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we as a Nation of warring
people, should conduct ourselves as the nations of Islam, whereas peace prevails.
Perhaps a state or period of mutual concord between our governments. When I
become President, I will seek a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those
who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting
oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation have placed upon the nations of Islam an unfair
injustice. My wife disrespects the Flag for many personal reasons. Together she
and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past, many years
ago. She has her views and I have mine'. Of course now, I have found myself about
to become the President of the United States and I have put aside my hatred. I will
use my power to bring change to this Nation, and offer the people a new path of
hope. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First Family. Indeed,
change is about to overwhelm the United States of America .
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I am afraid I have to disagree. It seems like many people try to find the bad things about the presidential candidates, while being totally ignorant to the good things. I am not saying you are, I am just venting a little here. We have to look a tthe good and bad things about each side of the ticket, not just the negative, or the positive for that matter. In order to be fair, everything must be known, not just the good or bad things.
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Disagree on what, exactly? Try to find? I didnt "try to find" anything; he said it on Natioanl TV.
Rat's ass to the "bad and good things"- this isn't an Islamic nation, and I for one do not wish to change my flag and anthem to please people who don't like me. I also think it's unbelieveable naive and incredibly dangerous to "disarm America to the level of our mideastern brethern's liking".
The "Nations of Islam" - where peace prevails???? Are you kidding me?
And it doesn't make any ruffle at all to you that someone who burns the flag and has this stated point of view on America now wants you to let him RUN it? Someone who doesn't respect the nation at all wants to be in charge?
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Maybe disagree was the wrong word, but I do not think this is an accurate representation of who he is.
He did not say anything about changing the flag or anthem.
As far as burning the flag, he did not burn the flag. He attended flag burnings; he did not state the circumstances, so we can not judge him on that.
I do not see how he is disrespecting the nation. He has certain beliefs, but that is not necessarily "disrespecting".
You have your opinion, I have mine, but I always like a good debate. ;)
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He did not say anything about changing the flag or anthem.
"We should consider to reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love."
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"We should consider to reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love."
Gaaah....
Okay, he did say that, but look at his reasoning. "To better offer our enemies hope and love". He wants to do that to make the world a better place, not because he necessarily hates America.
I apologize for that mistake.
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But that quote is also not true. Snopes.
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Gaaah....
Okay, he did say that, but look at his reasoning. "To better offer our enemies hope and love". He wants to do that to make the world a better place, not because he necessarily hates America.
I apologize for that mistake.
Muslim extremists don't respond to HOPE AND LOVE. Nice fucking dream world.
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I did not say I concur, only that his intent is good.
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Maybe disagree was the wrong word, but I do not think this is an accurate representation of who he is.
Maybe you should tell him that, then. These are his words.
He did not say anything about changing the flag or anthem.
It's quoted and bolded right there above you. Didn't you even read it?
"We should consider to
reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our
enemies hope and love."
As far as burning the flag, he did not burn the flag. He attended flag burnings; he did not state the circumstances, so we can not judge him on that.
He's asking to be my leader. I can judge him on whatever the hell I want.
Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put aside my hatred.
So... when he was at the flag burnings, apparently he hadn't "put away" his hatred for America yet. So, he actually HAS "stated the circumstance" for his attending; if in a oblique way.
I do not see how he is disrespecting the nation.
You've obviously never served the nation. Tell the families who's fathers, brothers, sons, and nowdays Mothers, sisters, wives, daughters came home under that flag that this Obama person isn't disrespecting the nation, it's heros, and it's flag by BURNING it at an anti-American rally. Tell the families of the service members who were never found - and that FLAG is all they have left to represent that sacrifice - that BURNING it isn't disrespectful.
How about this simple test. Burn the Iranian National Flag, and see if anyone considers THAT "disrespectful".
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Ah... EDIT!!! lol
I should probably type faster, or look up from the keyboard every now and again! :-D
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I did not say I concur, only that his intent is good.
I don't care what his INTENT is (or would have been if this had been true). I intended to stop a fight yesterday (remember?) and if I had gotten clocked in the head, no one would have been surprised because of the stupid way that I went about it.
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But that quote is also not true. Snopes.
Wait...what now?
I got this as quoted from the TV interview. It's mis-quoted?
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I don't know. I saw something that said it was satire. He wasn't on Meet the Press on Sept 7. Joe Biden was, I think. But it was also on snopes.
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I see your points, but just remember that there are good things about everyone, no matter how many, or few, bad things there are about them.
In reference to flag burning (just some information):
"As Richard Savage of Bloomington, Illinois wrote to me, "I am a Vietnam veteran and Republican. . . . Those who would burn the flag destroy the symbol of freedom, but amending the Constitution would destroy part of freedom itself." Mr. Savage is right, which is why I will vote against this amendment. Senator Durbin's amendment is a way forward to balance our respect for the flag with reverence for the Constitution."
From: http://obama.senate.gov/press/060627-obama_statement_29/
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I don't know. I saw something that said it was satire. He wasn't on Meet the Press on Sept 7. Joe Biden was, I think. But it was also on snopes.
I checked here
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp
I didnt see anything about this.
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I know there are good things about Obama. He's very good looking, he's a wonderful speaker, and he wants to help people. He does have a knack for bringing people together, but sugar and spice won't work everywhere.
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp
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If Obama said any of that shit, do you not think it would be on Fox and CNN pretty much perpetually, scrolling merrily along their marquees?
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From: http://obama.senate.gov/press/060627-obama_statement_29/
That's another point I don't like. In one place he says one thing; in another he has an entirely different statement. Usually directly in contradiction to each other; and for some reason, when he gets asked about it, whoever asks gets hammered skewered - more importantly: it never gets answered.
Certainly everyone has something "good" about them; that doesn't mean . . . really anything. Hell is "nice and toasty", ya know. ;-)
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If Obama said any of that shit, do you not think it would be on Fox and CNN pretty much perpetually, scrolling merrily along their marquees?
I dunno. Do they? You seem familiar with the content and lack thereof. I catch headlines from Fox website, then click the "Read more from so-and-so Times here" link. I don't even HAVE TV. Nope. No CATV, no Sat, no antennae. I R webnipotent!!!!
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If you can't take a glance at that and immediately recognize it as a complete fabrication, you are an absolute fucking retard.
Regardless of how you feel about the guy, no American politician would *ever* say something like this, in public, in print, and much less on national TV.
Our Nation's educational system has clearly failed to teach critical thinking skills above a fifth grade level.
I'm sure President Obama's educational policies would remedy this :)
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You should try picking up a newspaper! Look at the stuff you're missing:
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9206/newspaperym7.th.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newspaperym7.jpg)(http://img205.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp
Well, hell. SEE??? SE??? On his Snopes page; it says nothing. On a DIFFERENT PAGE, it says calls it fake. SEE?? SEE WHAT I MEAN??? OMG SNOPES IS IN THE TANK FOR OBAMA!!!!!!!
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You should try picking up a newspaper!
I worked at a newspaper facility for too long. Telling me that is like me telling you to open your own RETAIL BUSINESS. :|
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If you can't take a glance at that and immediately recognize it as a complete fabrication, you are an absolute fucking retard.
Regardless of how you feel about the guy, no American politician would *ever* say something like this, in public, in print, and much less on national TV.
Our Nation's educational system has clearly failed to teach critical thinking skills above a fifth grade level.
I'm sure President Obama's educational policies would remedy this :)
Fuck you and SHHHH!!! I've got less than a week! I can't be bothered to "check things"...
HANDFULS OF MUD!!! SOMEONE GET MY SHOVEL!!!!
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So what's worse? You don't give it the scrutiny it requires because you're so eager to believe it, or you intentionally pass on misinformation in the hopes that someone else will believe it and pass it on?
Are you evil or just stupid?
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Did you miss the part where I checked Snopes? Or didn't you read the thread?
So which is worse? You don't read the thread and insult me; or you read the thread and totally ignore the part where I said I checked and insult me (for not checking)?
Are you an asshole or just stupid?
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Did you miss the part where I checked Snopes? Or didn't you read the thread?
So which is worse? You don't read the thread and insult me; or you read the thread and totally ignore the part where I said I checked and insult me (for not checking)?
Are you an asshole or just stupid?
You shouldn't have to check Snopes to realize that, regardless of your political leanings, Obama is a skilled politician. In addition to that, he's playing it about as safe as anyone has at this point in recent memory. I'm not saying you should vote for the guy, but at least acknowledge that he's not stupid enough to go on TV, last month, and say something incendiary. If you're going to spread a bunch of bullshit, be smart and say that he said it back in the 60s or something.
Oh, and I'm an asshole. But I'm an intellectually honest asshole.
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Argh, shut up Joe I'm trying to close the sale on this bridge
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Fine. YOU create threads, then. The entire 'live or die' of a political thread is the mudslinging. Believe me; Demo and I had this discussion years ago; nobdoy gives a shit if you post "good" things or things everyone agrees with. The thread dies. So the point then would be?
If you had any sense about you , you'd just join the discussion; not come in and start insulting people. You don't think you could shoot the whole story down without attacking me personally? Detta JUST did that. (which, you already knew if you read the thread).
Or is that just the best you could do?
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Lacerda, we'll have to argue over game mods from now on. Sorry. :|
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I'll happily discuss things I disagree with all day, in a fully civilized manner. I'll even take the Devil's Advocate position just for the mind exercise and the sheer sport of it. The problem is, those discussions have to have some common foundation. I prefer logic and reason, but that's me. If you would have posted that schpeel and said, "Hey guys, what do you think of this? Do you think he really said that crap? Even if he didn't, what do you think about the issues it brings up?", that probably would have led to such a discussion (well, not really, but let's just say). We'll never know, because that's not what you did.
So I'm sorry if you misunderstood and thought I was slinging mud. When I said "If... then you are a fucking retard", I wasn't exaggerating or calling names for humorous effect. I literally meant that you have a medical condition. Possibly Downs Syndrome, or maybe just massive head trauma. Sorry about the F-bomb, I didn't mean you were literally having intercourse.
Also, when I asked if you were evil, I actually meant evil, and not just being a jerk, a d-bag, etc... If you take that as an insult, that's your business. To me, passing on known lies as if they are truth is evil. And if you already knew your original post was fakery, that's what you did. And if you believed it and then posted it because you thought it was truth, then you are stupid. That's just the word for it and I can't help that.
Hope this clears things up.
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Best you could do. I see.
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Lacerda, we'll have to argue over game mods from now on. Sorry. :|
I heard that if you blow really hard into a PS1 it can play PS2 games and burn DVDs
ARRRR get in there
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I head that if you blow really hard into a PS1 it can play PS2 games and burn DVDs
Nope.
http://www.snopes.com/blow/PS1.asp
PS1's suck anyway. They should be blown UP.
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This has been around for around a year. Over 14K hits on the exact string "As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22As+I%27ve+said+about+the+flag+pin%2C+I+don%27t+want+to+be+perceived+as+taking%22 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22As+I%27ve+said+about+the+flag+pin%2C+I+don%27t+want+to+be+perceived+as+taking%22)
Here is the John Semmens satire piece that the hoax took its words from: http://azconservative.org/Semmens118.htm (http://azconservative.org/Semmens118.htm)
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This has been around for around a year. Over 14K hits on the exact string "As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22As+I%27ve+said+about+the+flag+pin%2C+I+don%27t+want+to+be+perceived+as+taking%22 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22As+I%27ve+said+about+the+flag+pin%2C+I+don%27t+want+to+be+perceived+as+taking%22)
Here is the John Semmens satire piece that the hoax took its words from: http://azconservative.org/Semmens118.htm (http://azconservative.org/Semmens118.htm)
Nice finds. I found the same on the Snope's page Detta linked.
Did you look at the page I linked? It was a snope's page as well, with nothing about
the story.
I doN'T know that he
a: won't wear the pin (yeh, no big deal, (right), but *context*)
b: won't face the notes or flag (whichever is appropriate)
c: won't render the 'common' courtesy of the appropriate gesture (the "hand on the heart thing")
after checking more, different Snope's pages. wt[/i]f, ya know. You type "Obama" in their search
and check the page...
So I stand corrected on a few things here. Thank you Detta and ivan; for the other links.
**************THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************
.
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I heard if you snap off the cover on an Xbox360, there's actually several strips of GOLD inside.
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d: Is/was/might be tomorrow friends with known (probably dormant) "terrorists" - to be distinguished from "activists". Terrorists blow peoples' houses up; even with their children inside; while they slept. Sleep.
e: Is the "rather" for the President of the US for several nefarious entities abroad
I guess we'll have to see how d and e will play out over the apparently inevitably imminent Obama presidency. With luck, something interesting might happen. But probably not. Being elected tends to turn politicians into centrists. Which is boring, but safe for America.
For the record, I think McCain would be even MORE boring as president. At least Obama blows up babies with dynamite. Can't beat that!
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I heard Obama was using acorns to bribe kid's votes for PS3's.
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At least Obama blows up babies with dynamite.
YEH? WELL JOHN MCIAN SHOT BABIES FACE-TO-FACE!! HE WAS IN VIETNAM!!
EXPERIENCE FTW!!
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Okay, 12, I'm very confused. I came in just now and read all this, and with the various thread edits I have no idea what's happening. Please fill me in.
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I posted the originating post (content hasn't been edited). I went to Snope's to check. My link is posted above, see for yourself, there's nothing on the page about this story.
Detta subsequently posted her link; showing the whole thing to be untrue.
Then ivan posted his; which I read even more thoroughly, learning a few MORE things I was wrong on. So thanks (again) to Detta and ivan. Just wish they would get involved in discussions moar. See how people learn?
Anyway, Joe had the same opportunity but blew his credibility (to me) by not even trying to be involved in the actual discussion, and just posting what amounts to a long-winded personal attack. He claims he can discuss anything seriously civilly, etc, yet does NONE of that; not even a link.
The only edit (I think) was my last post, during which I was reading ivan's links and realized I was wrong in what I had up there. I would've just deleted it; but I figured ivan had already read it, so I edited instead.
Clear as slung mud now? :-)
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If by that you mean:
12AX7 posts demonstrably false BS for the 2nd time this week.
Joe calls him out as being either stupid or evil (to use my words), depending on whether he knew is was BS and posted it anyway, or was just too dumb to realize it. I don't consider it a personal attack, but I'm fine if you feel that way. Don't do stupid or evil things and I won't tell you that you're stupid or evil.
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Joe, shut the fuck up. You had your opourtunity to participate in the actual discussion and prove/disprove whatever you felt like. You didn't do that; you chose instead to take the opportunity of me being wrong to flame me, while claiming you actually can discuss something. So far, I haven't seen you 'discuss' ANYthing; except being a total freaked out pussy about a little snake. So -back to my earlier assessment of you/your mentality: Insults/flames are the best you could do. That's fine. I know a lot of parents start to emulate their brats after a while, so you at least have a viable excuse.
So take you holier-than-thou attitude, whittle it into a dildo shape, and stick it up your shiny metal ass.
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These are the best kind of threads.
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You just like it because of the dildo and ass thing.
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I heard if you stick a suction-cupped dildo on a PS2 you can make pr0n with it.
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And with 2 you can scale a skyscraper like Spiderman.
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And with 2 you can scale a skyscraper like Spiderman.
Sort of.
http://www.snopes.com/skyscraper/dildo/scale/three.asp
You only USE two; but you have to have a third one (on the ground) to belay.
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You were right, this thread has gotten much classier and sophisticated without my participation.
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Jeeez, joe. Get over yourself already. :roll:
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You were right, this thread has gotten much classier and sophisticated without my participation.
The degeneration of this thread to suction-cup dildo, or similar bottom-rung references was inevitable.
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The degeneration of this thread to suction-cup dildo, or similar bottom-rung references was inevitable.
lol
"bottom-rung references"
lol
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Anyway, to expand on Mr. Sixpack's comment....
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking
sides, Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American
flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message.
You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something
less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song, “I'd Like To Teach the World To
Sing.” If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.'We should consider to
reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our
enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the
level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we as a Nation of warring
people, should conduct ourselves as the nations of Islam, whereas peace prevails.
Perhaps a state or period of mutual concord between our governments. When I
become President, I will seek a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those
who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting
oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation have placed upon the nations of Islam an unfair
injustice. My wife disrespects the Flag for many personal reasons. Together she
and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past, many years
ago. She has her views and I have mine'. Of course now, I have found myself about
to become the President of the United States and I have put aside my hatred. I will
use my power to bring change to this Nation, and offer the people a new path of
hope. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First Family. Indeed,
change is about to overwhelm the United States of America .
Now, the fact that all kinds of red flags of incredulity do not go off in people's heads like fireworks on reading this hoax; indeed, the fact this hoax got any traction at all, speaks not only to the distrust people have of Obama, but of the entire political system. People actually think that a guy who says radical stuff like that can be elected POTUS!
Well, it ain't so. The reality is: Obama and McCain, and almost every other elected official in this land track very close to center, especially after being elected. There are exceptions, of course, but the majority are pretty mainstream.
So, if elected, Obama is not going to subvert flag and country for secret anarchist/muslim/commie/socialist/nazi ideas. He is not even going to be able to implement the rather mainstream democrat party ideas he's running on, because reality is a bitch and you do only what you can do.
Obama is actually closer to some GOP ideas than, for instance, I am: he is pro-death-penalty, and intends to continue our campaign in Afghanistan. I am against both. Lots of Americans are against both.
He's a skinny black guy with liberal ideas, some smarts, and the backing of more than half the voters of the country. Not a radical terrorist nazi communist zombie, just a sharp politician. Let's see what he can do to fix the problems everyone has been pissing and moaning about for the last 20 years. If he fails, we'll try someone else 4 years from now.
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He is not even going to be able to implement the rather mainstream democrat party ideas he's running on, because reality is a bitch and you do only what you can do.
He certainly can and I believe he will. With a filibuster proof Senate he can do just about anything. The checks and balances are what keep things from happening. He'll have no balances and the only check he'll have is the blank one made out to the democrats.
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He certainly can and I believe he will. With a filibuster proof Senate he can do just about anything. The checks and balances are what keep things from happening. He'll have no balances and the only check he'll have is the blank one made out to the democrats.
It's not the philibusterers that will stop him. It's the lack of monais.
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It's not the philibusterers that will stop him. It's the lack of monais.
He doesn't seem to have a problem coming up with that. In quantity.
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However it gets there is...well... whatever. We'll check it ...later.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/28/AR2008102803413_pf.html
and that aint from an email.
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You are not going to quote and highlight the important parts? Come one, like I am going to take the time to click a link, wait for it to load, and read it.
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I'm talking about monais to do things like universal health care and investing in our future. Can't do that with private doners, licit or illicit.
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Oh right, cause he's gonna lower our taxes. I forgot.
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Oh right, cause he's gonna lower our taxes. I forgot.
You say that like he isn't.
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I think the
privateuniversal health care can get started; that's enough for him. He's not going to rule the nation for life. Besides that; there are plenty of bills passed that have insufficient funding. Why would this be different? I believe every Democratic lawmaker would jump at the chance to be in support of such an historic undertaking. Wouldn't you think?
***edited
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You say that like he isn't.
You're sharp.
Even raising corporate taxes would be raising MY taxes. As I said in another thread, "Corporations" don't pay taxes. Stock holders pay the taxes when they get less dividends, Employees pay the taxes when they don't get a bonus or raise (or lose their jobs all together), consumers pay the taxes when they buy the products at a higher price.
So when "Carmax" has to pay higher taxes. I get less money when I retire, I get less money when Enrique gets no bonus or raise next year and I have less money when I go to buy my next car.
/hot copypaste ACTION
So quit telling me that you're going to do me a favour by not raising my taxes but instead taxes on corporations.
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Quick question though...he is lowering taxes for some people but raising it for others, so (for the most part) would they not cancel out?
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Quick question though...he is lowering taxes for some people but raising it for others, so (for the most part) would they not cancel out?
It's a political maneuver.
Lowering taxes on people who make less than $100,000 a year won't really impact federal revenue that much, while raising taxes on people who make more than that, and taxing corporations even more WILL impact federal revenue quite a bit.
But like Detta says, it's really a red herring. Raising those taxes really just passes the increased cost of doing business back down to us anyway.
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The top 10% already pay 70% of the taxes. You want them to pay more?
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
Give me a break.
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Nothing quite like removing incentive to grow the economy even more, especially now that it's actually shrinking.
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And add your well-being and health to the list of government managed things.
Your fanny managed by the same people who managed Fannie's fanny.
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See? No reason to chew on secret-extremist fodder. All these ideas have been cornerstone democrat party puffery for decades. Obama is standing on solid American ground, roughly half of it.
Now, as for all this stuff about raising/lowering taxes, health care, energy, diplomacy, social security, blah blah blah... After LBJ, there has been no correlation between the philosophies spouted by the president and what actually gets implemented. Taxes have gone up during GOP control, and down during democrat control. And vice versa. What really determines policy is the same thing that always determines policy: political expediency. The one exception to that was our current sitting president, who committed the single most radical act of any president in my lifetime and embroiled us in an unnecessary war. Universal healthcare a radical idea? Not as radical as unprovoked warfare. So fuck all this goddam bullcrap to hell. I already resigned from the mainstream parties and joined the kook fringe libertarian piss-away-our-votes can't-even-vote-for-Barr-without-gagging crowd, if you can call it a crowd -- where do I go from here?
Obama a radical?
HA!
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Libertarians: We meet at the Barr.
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Exactly.
You want to know a "radical" political viewpoint?
Expecting the government to obey the Constitution and abide by its own laws.
If that makes us radical, then I guess we really ARE going to hell in a handbasket.
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I already resigned from the mainstream parties and joined the kook fringe libertarian piss-away-our-votes can't-even-vote-for-Barr-without-gagging crowd, if you can call it a crowd -- where do I go from here?
So you see? We CAN agree on something. Almost.
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And add your well-being and health to the list of government managed things.
Your fanny managed by the same people who managed Fannie's fanny.
My health and well-being are managed by my shaman. Which, by the way, is not covered by my insurance. :x
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Now that some level of civility has returned, this seems like a good place to reinject myself into the conversation (you know, so that I can make it uncivil again). You (mostly) all know by now that I (like others here) have no love for either of the two major parties in this country. I started out my life as a Democrat (I was crushed as a 5 year old when Carter lost). In early adulthood, I became a strident Republican. At some point I switched my voter registration to Independent because I couldn't get fully on board with either party (and Libertarian wasn't a registration option in AZ at that time). A few years later, I found out that Libertarian had become an option for AZ voters, so I changed my registration again. I have been a Libertarian ever since. Now that you understand that I don't approach this from a partisan standpoint, I'll get on with my real points.
Not to get too Joe-like ( :wink: ), but if any of you really think either of these two jokers is going to act fiscally responsible, you're delusional. McCain wants to spend your money on a war, and Obama wants to spend it on social programs.
I don't care what party is doing the speaking, chances are good that they are merely telling you what you want to hear. In this example, I'm going after Republicans because they're easy targets. Republicans are real big fans of claiming fiscal responsibility. They lie. Look at the graph and tell me again how fiscally responsible Republicans are.
On to both parties. They suck!
Stop trying to redistribute wealth (Dems).
Stop thinking that someday you'll be able to take away my shotgun (Dems).
Stop assuming that you know how to plan for my retirement better than I do (Dems and to a lesser extent Reps).
Stop trampling the fucking Constitution (Dems and Reps).
Stop calling people terrorists (I'm looking right at you, Sarah Palin).
Stop trying to tell people who and how they should love and be wed (Reps and to a lesser extent Dems).
Stop telling me that I, a grown woman, am unable to make decisions about my own body (Reps).
Stop trying to make me believe that Obama is an Islamo-fascist sympathizer, who wants to sell America to Pakistan and will be the downfall of society (Reps).
Stop thinking that I, as a woman, am too fucking stupid to see the difference between Clinton and Palin just because they both have va-jay-jays (Reps).
Stop trying to make me so afraid of the other guys that I'll blindly look to you for leadership and let you do whatever the hell you want (BOTH OF YOU!!!)
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(http://www.guildhaven.org/images/forumpics/applause8in_orig.gif)
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Damn, I missed it all again. Well said Ves
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Well said Ves
As usual. :-)
One thing I apparently need to reiterate for all the questions about 'red flags' and 'did you believe that' etc.
OF COURSE IT RAISED RED FLAGS THAT'S WHY I CHECKED SNOPES. Did EVERYbody miss that, or do I need to go back and bold and underline that too?
I checked here
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp
I didnt see anything about this.
This was supposedly in a TV INTERVIEW and NOT ON SNOPES. And I also figured if someone was going to DISprove it; they would certainly do so and point out my errors - instead of just calling people retarded.
I don't fit in ANY political camp. Not in the US, anyway. The closest would probably be Libertarian.
I hope no one is mistaking my dislike of Obama as support for anyone else. I don't see anyone satisfactory running/having ran/thinking about running later. As a matter of fact; to refer back to ivan's post; I don't see the current system being capable of even allowing a third party in, much less several more parties - and even less capable of implementing any real changes to modify the current clusterF for the better. A REAL "better"; not neccessarily 'better' for the politicians.
I have no illusions on that, though. It takes a lot of money to even run for office. As a matter of fact; it's ALL about the money - which pretty much precludes anyone with any altruistic motivation to make this nation and world a better place, and instead conglomerates the most playable and corrupted together making them virtually invincible. So . . . no CHANGE for j00!
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One thing I apparently need to reiterate for all the questions about 'red flags' and 'did you believe that' etc.
OF COURSE IT RAISED RED FLAGS THAT'S WHY I CHECKED SNOPES. Did EVERYbody miss that, or do I need to go back and bold and underline that too?
I don't think anyone missed that, but I think the point here is that this should have done more than just raise red flags: basically your entire body should have been covered with red flags, your name should have become Mr. Red Flagman and you should only have been able to utter a combination of the words "red" and "flag." As ivan showed, simply googlin' one part of the statements led to a virtual torrent of debunk (which sounds gross).
I'm not quoting the rest of your post because I agree with all of it. :|
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Apparently this (http://static.toptorrents.org/images/212530/89069.jpg) is what a torrent of debunk looks like.
In case anyone needed a visual.
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lol
torrent of debunk
lol
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...sorry... had to.
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I don't see the current system being capable of even allowing a third party in, much less several more parties
The electoral college system tends to produce a bilateral contest. To give a third or fourth party a chance, we would need to abolish the electoral college system.
However, abolishing the electoral college system may be a very, very bad idea.
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I agree, abolishing the electorate would run quite contrary to the Founding Fathers' notion of our constitutional republic. However, one compromise may be to institute runoff voting on a state-by-state level.
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Another compromise might be for third and fourth parties to nominate people who are not crazy.
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That would help too.
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Oh, lordy. They hit it out of the goddam park with this one. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/i_would_make_a_bad_president_obama)
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Oh, lordy. They hit it out of the goddam park with this one. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/i_would_make_a_bad_president_obama)
I like Cindy McCain's "A Vote For My Husband Is A Vote For Me Not Breaking Your Fucking Neck"
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Oh, lordy. They hit it out of the goddam park with this one. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/i_would_make_a_bad_president_obama)
OMG! I CHEKKED SNOPSE AND THEY DIDNT SAY THIS WASNT TRUE!!1 NOW DONT YOU SEE WE WILL ALL BE SPEKING ISLAMIC SOON MARK MY WORDS!! FIVE WORDS BROING BACK RONALD REAGAN
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Bet they got the idea from this.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5051118.ece
"Barack Obama’s senior advisers have drawn up plans to lower expectations for his presidency if he wins next week’s election, amid concerns that many of his euphoric supporters are harbouring unrealistic hopes of what he can achieve.
The sudden financial crisis and the prospect of a deep and painful recession have increased the urgency inside the Obama team to bring people down to earth, after a campaign in which his soaring rhetoric and promises of “hope” and “change” are now confronted with the reality of a stricken economy. "
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Bet they got the idea from this.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5051118.ece
"Barack Obama’s senior advisers have drawn up plans to lower expectations for his presidency if he wins next week’s election, amid concerns that many of his euphoric supporters are harbouring unrealistic hopes of what he can achieve.
No fucking shit? You mean he's not going to fart rainbows and unicorns? So his whole damn campaign message of HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE is now 'uh, guys, have you thought about maybe not hoping so much?'
Fucking EL OH EL
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LMFAO!!11!
@ Post # 10...
http://africanpress.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/the-obama-tapes-to-be-released/
:-D
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Stop thinking that I, as a woman, am too fucking stupid to see the difference between Clinton and Palin just because they both have va-jay-jays (Reps).
I thought you were making fun of Bill Clinton for a second there.
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He HAS had several...
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Maybe you should tell him that, then. These are his words.
It's quoted and bolded right there above you. Didn't you even read it?
"We should consider to
reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our
enemies hope and love."
He's asking to be my leader. I can judge him on whatever the hell I want.
So... when he was at the flag burnings, apparently he hadn't "put away" his hatred for America yet. So, he actually HAS "stated the circumstance" for his attending; if in a oblique way.
You've obviously never served the nation. Tell the families who's fathers, brothers, sons, and nowdays Mothers, sisters, wives, daughters came home under that flag that this Obama person isn't disrespecting the nation, it's heros, and it's flag by BURNING it at an anti-American rally. Tell the families of the service members who were never found - and that FLAG is all they have left to represent that sacrifice - that BURNING it isn't disrespectful.
How about this simple test. Burn the Iranian National Flag, and see if anyone considers THAT "disrespectful".
But ask yourself why they dont like us it is because we disrespected them in the first place. We have no buisness in thios countries and families that have been sent to war should not even have to die for the flag. There dying for no reason and people are forgetting this and only talking about the patriotism involved in killing another human being in a middle eastern country. I completely support what he says because finally somebody is speaking out against the hatred and warfare that America is built on and instead speaking to support the qualities that america should be based on. Qualities such as : hardwork, honour and intellectual development.
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why do you hate uhmerika?
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Qualities such as : hardwork, honour and intellectual development.
Obama is going to help you in your intellectual development? He has my vote.
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But ask yourself
I know I've been gone for a month, but...
Who are you again?
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God save the King.
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But ask yourself why they dont like us it is because we disrespected them in the first place. We have no buisness in thios countries and families that have been sent to war should not even have to die for the flag. There dying for no reason and people are forgetting this and only talking about the patriotism involved in killing another human being in a middle eastern country. I completely support what he says because finally somebody is speaking out against the hatred and warfare that America is built on and instead speaking to support the qualities that america should be based on. Qualities such as : hardwork, honour and intellectual development.
DO us all a favour and read the entire thread before chiming in. "I completely support what he says..." Way back in this thread, the statement was debunked. Obama never made the statement. If you had kept reading, I wouldn't have to tell you this.
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DO us all a favour
So, unplug the jukebox, and do us all a favour... That music's lost its taste, try another flavor.
Ant mu-who-zick.
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So, unplug the jukebox, and do us all a favour... That music's lost its taste, try another flavor.
Ant mu-who-zick.
My brain asplode...
Huh???
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My brain asplode...
Huh???
http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/a/adamant108/antmusic4574.html
Well I'm standin here, looking at you
What do I see?
I'm lookin straight through.
It's so sad, when you're young
To be told
You're havin fun
So unplug the jukebox
And do us all a favour
Now that music's lost it's taste
So try another flavour:
Antmusic (X4)
Well I'm standin here
what do I see?
A big nothing
Threatening me!
It's so sad, when you're young
to be told
You're havin fun
So unplug the jukebox
And do us all a favour
Now that music's lost it's taste
So try another flavour:
Antmusic (X4)
So unplug the jukebox
And do us all a favour
Now that music's lost it's taste
So try another flavour:
Antmusic (X4)
Don't tread on an ant
He's done nothing to you
There might come a time when he's treading on you
Don't tread on an ant you'll end up black and blue
Cut off his head, legs come looking for you!
So unplug the jukebox
And do us all a favour
Now that music's lost it's taste
So try another flavour:
Antmusic (X4)
So unplug the jukebox
And do us all a favour
Now that music's lost it's taste
So try another flavour:
Antmusic (repeat until end)
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Whenever anyone says "do us all a favour", I get an Antmusic earworm. Just thought I'd pass it on this time.
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Would that be an ear ant, or an Ant worm?
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I always think of Atom Ant when people say Adam Ant.
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Up and at 'em!
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Can we focus on what this thread is really about? The new American Flag?
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Can we focus on what this thread is really about? The new American Flag?
Joe the Fister?
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Phister. The phreak phlag with the phunny name.
Oh wait that's a phaucet.
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I are serious poster. This is serious response.
Dear President-Elect Obama,
Please, please, please don't fuck up the country. You and your fellow Democrats have a nice majority in both the House and the Senate. This means two things: You can pretty much do whatever you please and you can't blame the Republicans for everything. If you really want to improve the country, this is your chance.
Don't blow it.
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Don't blow it.
Unless by "it", of course, you mean "me"
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I are serious poster. This is serious response.
Dear President-Elect Obama,
Please, please, please don't fuck up the country. You and your fellow Democrats have a nice majority in both the House and the Senate. This means two things: You can pretty much do whatever you please and you can't blame the Republicans for everything. If you really want to improve the country, this is your chance.
Don't blow it.
Yeh, that worked out great for us during Carter's time. I miss those gas lines.
Aside from the point that they've had the majority for a while now, and look where we are.
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Yeh, that worked out great for us during Carter's time. I miss those gas lines.
Aside from the point that they've had the majority for a while now, and look where we are.
True, but Bush still had veto power. That's gone now. Unrestricted Democratery will run rampant now.
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He only vetoed 12 bills; six of them were the same ones over again. So, really only nine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes#George_W._Bush
Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005
Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.
U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007
Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP")
Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
Water Resources Development Act of 2007
Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008.
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
2007 U.S. Farm Bill
2007 U.S. Farm Bill
Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act
The Democrats blocked waaay more from happening than Republicans and Bush combined; methinks simply out of spite; not for the good of the country.
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HE VETEOD THE SCHIP BILLZ WHY DOES HE HAEET HOUR CHILDS??????
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bECAUSE they don"t pay taxes and line the pockets of Big Oil companees and Big Bisness and CEOS.
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Bu$h
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084111/PETER-HITCHENS-The-night-waved-goodbye-America--best-hope-Earth.html