Topic: Sticks what spit fahr and such (Read 6446 times)

12AX7 · « **on:** January 28, 2011, 10:10:31 AM »

After I finished the CAR-15, I made a .308 as well. It's DPMS style; .308, 26" 1:9 twist Stainless Steel Bull barrel, Leupold Mark-AR 3x-9x 40mm mildot scope.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2011, 10:57:44 AM »

Wow, VERY nice!

And .308 is a good choice, given the ubiquity of that round. Have you done much testing with it yet?

Banshee · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2011, 11:45:46 AM »

Beautiful piece you have there. Looks rather like a PSG1 to me, but I'm hardly a gun nut, 'specially compared to someone that actually builds weapons.

Clear_Runway · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2011, 12:54:58 PM »

*whistles*

you know, i wonder how difficult (ignoring legality for the moment) to make an AK-47 completely from scratch. just a thought, since it was designed to be easy to manufacture.

12AX7 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2011, 02:57:10 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes on January 28, 2011, 10:57:44 AM

Wow, VERY nice!

And .308 is a good choice, given the ubiquity of that round. Have you done much testing with it yet?

Thanks!
Sadly, no, not a lot of shooting. None of the ranges around here will let me shoot (since no serial numbers), so I have to go out on Game Management land, set up a decent and safe range, - which is a real hassle in mountainous, hilly, heavily wooded terrain. Then God help you if a deputy or Game Warden shows up and doesn't like the range or -more likely- the guns themselves. My other option is shooting at the Police range with my brother in Abbeville, SC, or at my mom and dad's in Greenwood, SC.
It does shoot nice, though!

Soda-can round sized groups at (approx) 600/700 meters.
(I'm not exactly certain on the distance as that wasn't on a range; just out in a cow pasture at my parent's. I lazed a lone tree @ 570 meters, and the 'target' was a bit further than that.)

Quote from: Banshee on January 28, 2011, 11:45:46 AM

Beautiful piece you have there.

Thank you!

It'll look even better when I do something with the bare aluminum lower receiver. I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to anodize it or use Gun Kote. Most likely Gun Kote; anodizing is a LOT more trouble.

Quote from: Clear_Runway on January 28, 2011, 12:54:58 PM

*whistles*

you know, i wonder how difficult (ignoring legality for the moment) to make an AK-47 completely from scratch. just a thought, since it was designed to be easy to manufacture.

Easy to manufacture and easy to build are totally different animals. It was designed to be easy to manufacture; as in a factory could pump out thousands of them. It isn't really 'easy' to actually build by hand. Not nearly as easy as an AR platform.
It IS done, though. http://www.ak-47.us/build/index.php

As for legality; you can build anything you want as long as you can legally own a firearm, aren't building it fully automatic, or purpose-built for resale* - per BATF. Your local and state laws apply on top of that, though, so you should check that before making such an endeavor.

* You CAN sell it; it belongs to you and is legally transferable under private gun sales laws. You cannot "manufacture for resale" though, without having a manufacture's license, etc.

Pyrenus · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2011, 01:53:32 PM »

Those are very nice. I've been reading up on AR15s after having read your post and it looks like a lot of fun to build and customize one.

Can you recommend any sites or books for someone who knows very little about guns but is interested in building an AR-15?

LuciferSam · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2011, 03:40:48 AM »

M4carbine.net and the weaponsevolution forums both have the smallest number of uninformed folks compared to, say, ar15.com.

If weapons aren't too scary for the geekery, here is a hastily assembled slice of my collection including my latest 556 build.

AR is a del-ton lower & lower, with BCM barrel (heavy 1:7 twist) and an H-buffer, with Magpul MOE furniture. LMT lower parts kit, MIAD grip. Trigger connector isn't LMT, it's a little lighter, but I don't recall the brand.

Pistols are, from left to right: Ruger SP101 (Basic Service Pistol) in .357 magnum with 3 inch barrel and Hogue grips, Glock Generation 3 .40S&W (model 27), Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911 Champion (.45ACP) with GI furniture and 4 inch barrel, and Star M-45 Firestar in Starvel Finish (also .45acp).

Pipe stem under the Star pistol belongs to a Peterson's of Dublin Bulldog pipe, from the Kerry collection I believe.

12AX7 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2011, 06:01:41 AM »

That's pretty nice, Luc.

Long live .45ACP! ..oh wait it already has...

This is my only pistol: Glock 21C .45ACP It's a 21C-compensated-; but I don't have the ported barrel in it. Replaced that with a standard barrel.

Also I had an internal laser sight; but the spring on it seemed like it was starting to get weak, so I got the rail mount laser/light. I put the

stock guide rod back in.

All the magazines I have are 13 round double-stacked, which in this pistol makes for one heavy gat; not to mention toting the ammo for it.

12AX7 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2011, 06:40:06 AM »

As far as websites; I can give you links to sites to buy parts from; but forums - not so much. I saw a Youtube vid of some guy talking about 80% lower receivers; and building the thing, so I just started dropping '80% lower receiver' and 'machining AR-15 lowers' and other like terms in Google. I probably read thru 109 legal/government websites, fifty forums, eighty-nine personal websites on building, watched 212 youtube videos on it... it's out there. Referring to what Luci said; don't decide on anything from just one source - especially laws. It's serious prison time if you go mucking around with illegal weapons; particularly assault rifles; and MORE particularly assault rifles with no serial numbers built by you. Also - don't think about building them to sell without a manufacturing license. That'd be even worse.

At any rate, here's some pics of the hardware I built from. There's a few points to make when someone talks about building. MOST people talking about building mean they started with a finished lower receiver; either stripped of it's parts or not - but it is manufactured complete. The rest of the rifle is pretty much legal for anyone to buy; upper receivers, barrels, handgrips, stocks, magazines, etc. It's the lower receiver that has to have clearance - IF it is a finished one. If you purchase an " 80% lower " (see pics below), no check is done, and there are no ballistics tests, records, or serial numbers recorded by anyone because it doesn't qualify as a 'firearm' yet. It's simply a chunk of aluminum that resembles a firearm. NOW - you still have to be able to own a firearm legally if you continue; because as soon as you drill/mill out the fire control cavity (where the trigger, hammer, and other hardware goes) - it legally becomes a firearm part; and you have it. So if you can't pass a background check for firearms; this method of acquiring them isn't going to help you if you get caught. In fact; since they know you can manufacture firearms - it will be much worse for you.

The first pic is an unfinished, 80% lower receiver for .308 that I haven't worked yet.
The second is both the unfinished rec. and the one I've worked. It already has some hardware installed (fire/safe switch, magazine catch/release, pistol grip)
The third is another look at the worked lower. This is the one in the pics of the finished rifle back up the page.

12AX7 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2011, 06:42:49 AM »

And the pics of my CAR-15 (.223/5.56 NATO) build:

Banshee · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2011, 08:38:53 AM »

Quote from: LuciferSam on February 11, 2011, 03:40:48 AM

If weapons aren't too scary for the geekery, here is a hastily assembled slice of my collection including my latest 556 build.

Luci, can you possibly upload the pictures as attachments? I'd like to see what you got, but tinypic and other image sharing sites are blocked from work.

Pyrenus · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2011, 10:09:20 AM »

Thanks for the links and info. I will most likely talk to a local firearms dealer before starting anything, as the lower receiver has to go through a licensed FFL anyway if bought online.

A while back I was reading online about firearms suitable for basic home security. A lot of sites suggested something like a shotgun over a pistol. An AR-15 may be overkill for security purposes, but I can imagine that if a shotgun would scare an intruder, an assault rifle would probably make them mess themselves.

12AX7 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2011, 04:04:14 PM »

Quote from: Banshee on February 11, 2011, 08:38:53 AM

Luci, can you possibly upload the pictures as attachments? I'd like to see what you got, but tinypic and other image sharing sites are blocked from work.

Here ya go. Never can tell when Luci's comin' back, lol.

This is the pic he posted.

12AX7 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2011, 04:31:31 PM »

Quote from: Pyrenus on February 11, 2011, 10:09:20 AM

Thanks for the links and info. I will most likely talk to a local firearms dealer before starting anything, as the lower receiver has to go through a licensed FFL anyway if bought online.

Only the finished receivers have to go to a dealer. The ones I just posted do not; they are not
considered firearms. That's where the "build" difference comes in - what I was talking about is
building the receiver itself; having to drill it and mill it out before you can even begin to
assemble rifle parts.

It seems that by "build" you intend to purchase all the parts 'finished'(ie; you dont have to make
any parts) and assemble them into a rifle. If that's what you mean; then yes, indeed- you have to
have the lower shipped to a dealer.

Quote from: Pyrenus on February 11, 2011, 10:09:20 AM

A while back I was reading online about firearms suitable for basic home security. A lot of sites suggested something like a shotgun over a pistol. An AR-15 may be overkill for security purposes, but I can imagine that if a shotgun would scare an intruder, an assault rifle would probably make them mess themselves.

An assault rifle is a BAD idea for home security. A shotgun is better than a pistol mainly due to lack of
"overpenetration of the rounds" (through walls, and then into family members or neighbors, or
personal property destroyed). A short-barreled, pistol-grip, auto shotgun is the optimum choice for
a home defense role. 12 or 16 gauge; but even a 20 gauge is plenty, and probably better if the lady
of the house has to use it; since it doesn't kick as bad, she can get the barrel back on target
quickly after firing.

An assault rifle and associated ammunition are made to penetrate body armor, and then still do
fatal damage. In a home defense situation this is the "wrong tool" for the job. You want a fatal
shot; but nothing to penetrate the walls, windows, doors, etc. and endanger innocent people - like
your family and neighbors. If you live alone at least 1/2 mile from anyone; then feel free.

But if you live in a neighborhood; or -worse- an apartment, keep in mind that even though it might
not seem like it; you are nearly always surrounded by people only a few-to-a few hundred feet away.
If you open fire with an assault rifle; chances are you will either hit someone innocent or their
personal property. The same goes with a pistol.

I'd go with the shotgun, myself.

12AX7 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2011, 04:49:58 PM »

And if any doubts as to overpenetration exist; I can take some pics. The .308 in the pics above fired thru a double-hung sheetrock wall- thru the stud width-wise, out the other side, thru a step on a wooden ladder that was leaned against the back of the wall width-wise, put a silver-dollar-sized hole in the interior of the concrete block wall; and a #10 can sized hole on the outside.

Overpenetration is real, and real deadly.

This has been a court-ordered PSA

Pyrenus · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2011, 05:21:31 PM »

Thanks, that was very enlightening. Thus begins my collection of firearms

LuciferSam · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2011, 08:29:33 PM »

Quote from: 12AX7 on February 11, 2011, 04:04:14 PM

Here ya go. Never can tell when Luci's comin' back, lol.

Just another thing I have in common with many messianic figures.

Pyrenius - it's a lot of fun. I got my start on stodgy old double guns, and that is still where much of my passion is. I will upload a picture of my Richard Nixon Presidential autographed browning the next time I am in Seattle if I remember to do so.

Been building Armalites/ARs for a good long while now, too and it's quite the rewarding hobby - I am too old to have had legos, growing up, so it's some chord deep in that part of the mind I suppose. Of course it was also becoming something of an Irish national past time about the time I was getting ready to move to the US, so that may also have something to do with it.

Like the saintly 12 intimated, don't rely on one source alone - while AR15.com may have good build manuals, you'll do best to steer clear of the forums - there is not an emphasis of quality components use there, and I have seem too many unregistered SBRs, etc, in the picture threads. Though I already mentioned them, here is a breakdown of the resources I have tended to find most useful:

M4carbine.net's build forums, which have a primary focus on the three-gun/USPSA crowd, with some military orientation.
Weaponevolution.com's how-to section caters to law enforcement/military folks and high speed gear types, with plenty of the USPSA crowd additionally.

At these places you will find much more knowledgeable individuals and guides as it relates to keeping your rifle up to "mil-spec" conditions, which is very important for the durability of your investment. Likewise, Rob at TacticalYellowVisor is an authoritative source for components reliability. Even for those that prefer to build up their AR from a stripped receiver or an 80%, his charts will help you decide on quality manufacturers for your components.

On the issue of home defense, I am not adverse to the use of the carbine in low grain .556 or civilian 223 - it doesn't tend to over penetrate compared to a 30 caliber round of course, and has the benefit of being much lighter and requiring less practice than a pump/automatic shotgun to run in a stressful situation. If you're going to go the handgun route, evaluate your living situation - I would have no problem using a .40s&w in my large ranch house, but I would stick to a hollow point .45 or similar moderate pressure round at either of my condos for example.

The shotgun is all well and good, but remember that it requires a different set entirely of gross motor skills compared to a rifle or semi-auto pistol. The key to shotgun employment is practice and upper body strength, and even then - in my opinion - it's more of an outdoor weapon.

LuciferSam · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:20:26 AM »

That's a nice bit of polymer, incidentally. I am a very hesitant latecomer to the tupperware pistols, but I've been quite pleased with the performance of mine. I shoot IDPA mostly, and try not to "race up" any of my pistols - though I will most likely always be a wheelgun and 1911 lad first, the glock has done more than acceptable service.

Did you do the stippling job yourself?

12AX7 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2011, 06:20:14 AM »

Thank you. It was a gift from my little brother. I was about to purchase a 1911, and he knew a fella selling this Glock .45 with those custom grips (nope; I

didn't do that job, lol) and a couple of the hi-cap magazines for less than half of what the 1911 was selling for. I tried it out and haven't looked back. Like

you, back when Glock first appeared, I wasn't too sure of a plastic handgun. I stayed clear of them, but have only heard good things about them;

particularly from law enforcement. I'm a believer now. Though I'll always see the beauty in a 1911; I'm happy with my plastic.

Actually, I've been mulling over building an 80% 1911. I'm not totally certain what machining remains to be done on the receiver, though; so I'm not

sure if I could do it. I would love to, though. Now that would be an awesome family heirloom, huh?

12AX7 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:07:54 PM »

Found more pics of the building process:

12AX7 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:09:10 PM »

12AX7 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:10:03 PM »

Demosthenes · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:52:17 PM »

Wow, that is one nice looking receiver!

12AX7 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2011, 09:30:30 PM »

Thanks. Its the same one as above; these were just some lost-in-an-old-unused-cellphone pics that I'd snapped while building.

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