Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2004, 04:45:03 PM
![]("http://www.gotthegeek.com/images/demo_avatar_kane_screen_sm.jpg"){kind=avatar}
Submitted by DemosthenesWe all know someone like this. Most of the time we work with at least one of them.
You know the kind of person I'm talking about.
The guy who decides to go with a decision without being very well-informed about it, and then, later, even when it becomes painfully clear that it was a bad decision, in order to save face or avoid admitting that he didn't do enough research, he refuses to do anything to remedy the situation, choosing instead to just stubbornly stay on the path he knows full well is not working.
I work with someone like that. "Dan" made a deal between our company and another software company a few months ago. I don't know the details, but suffice it to say that we paid them a lot of money for them to specifically port their main product over into a version that we can sell alongside our own product to our customers.
"Dan" needed a programmer to work with this application, and I got whored out -- I mean I was volunteered to be that programmer.
The application sucks. The way it is written, from the ground up, there is no conceivable way it can do anything that this other software vendor claims it can do.
I've been working with it for about two weeks straight now, and I have yet to be able to accomplish ANYTHING with it without some level of major malfunction on the part of this application. It's crap. Vaporware. A dream.
I have discovered that there simply are no working versions of this program. This is it.
I also found out that one of our senior programmers was in the initial meeting where this application was first discussed. Our senior programmer advised against working with this application for a number of pretty good reasons. He also stated that if we as a company DID end up going ahead with it, he wouldn't be the one to support it, because he saw no way for them to get it to do the things they claimed it could do.
Flash a couple of months forward, and here I am, finding myself in a position where I'm being expected to support a buggy, slow program that doesn't function on even the most basic level. I have no source code. There is no documentation for it. The only other person in-house that knows anything about it is our head sales guy ("Dan"), and of course the decision to go ahead with this lunacy was his to begin with.
I know our clients well. I provide back-end support for them as my primary job. I fix their data. I troubleshoot code on the fly in their live systems. I know how they react to things that don't deliver on promised functionality.
If we start selling this application to those same clients, we'll have a revolt on our hands.
The best course of action? Step away from it, admit that this probably was the wrong horse to back, and move on to something that DOES perform this function for our clients, and promote that.
This, as logical as it might seem, will not happen. Even when it's perfectly clear to everyone now that this program will be a disaster for anyone that pays money for it, and a disaster to our relationships with the customers we dupe into buying it, "Dan" won't admit he backed the wrong horse and made a bad decision.
Instead, we will continue to beat this dead horse until there's nothing left to beat.
To sum up, I have written my interpretation of the above situation in the form of a small skit:
Dan: I think we should go with X-product. I like how it looks. The packaging is nice.
Programmer #1: Well, it's poorly written. There is no documentation. It doesn't do anything they claim it does. It's horrifically expensive compared to every other alternative, and almost every other alternative works better. It's very unstable. It's practically unworkable. I recommend against it.
IT Department Head: It's so resource intensive we can barely get it to run on a dedicated server with no users connected to it. Even then it takes a half an hour to run even a basic report. I recommend against it.
Dan: Well I don't really care what you guys think about it. I like it. I think our customers will like it. We're going ahead with it anyway.
*2 months later*
Dan: (to Programmer #2) Why can't you get this to work?
Programmer #2: Where to begin? Well, it's poorly written. There is no documentation. It doesn't do anything they claim it does. It's very unstable. It's practically unworkable. Who's the idiot that recommended this?
Dan: (angry) Well MAKE IT WORK!
Post by: MISTER MASSACRE on February 11, 2004, 05:33:33 PM
Post by: xolik on February 11, 2004, 07:30:49 PM
* hate
Post by: pbsaurus on February 11, 2004, 07:45:13 PM
Post by: Demosthenes on February 12, 2004, 09:15:34 AM
Quote from: pbsaurus
Tell your customers the truth and suggest they tell Dan to take a flying leap when he tries to sell them crap.
Oh, believe me, I'd love to.
But I'd end up doing something like this guy is doing if I were to go that route:
(http://www.learnignorance.com/archives/images/will-code-html-for-food.jpg)
Except it'd say "Visual FoxPro" instead of "HTML".
Post by: JohnnyFive on February 12, 2004, 11:39:20 AM
Quote from: Demosthenes
Quote from: pbsaurusTell your customers the truth and suggest they tell Dan to take a flying leap when he tries to sell them crap.
Oh, believe me, I'd love to.
But I'd end up doing something like this guy is doing if I were to go that route:
(http://www.learnignorance.com/archives/images/will-code-html-for-food.jpg)
Except it'd say "Visual FoxPro" instead of "HTML".
Just for the record, I like cardboard.
Post by: Demosthenes on February 12, 2004, 12:24:14 PM
Post by: xolik on February 12, 2004, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: Demosthenes
*click*
Uh oh. I know what that sound means. **Dives for cover**
Post by: Demosthenes on February 12, 2004, 03:28:44 PM
*click*
*click*
Huh.
*clickclickclickclickclick*
Oh yeah. This thing isn't loaded for me over here.
:evil:
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2004, 03:34:28 PM
Post by: xolik on February 12, 2004, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: TheJudge
Your gun has a permanent safety. :D
Your avatar is facinating. Where did you find a picture of a Tanooki suit that, uh, detailed?
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2004, 05:10:26 PM
Quote from: xolik
Quote from: TheJudgeYour gun has a permanent safety. :D
Your avatar is facinating. Where did you find a picture of a Tanooki suit that, uh, detailed?
here (http://forums.rwtd.org/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1)
Post by: xolik on February 12, 2004, 05:12:14 PM
Post by: TheBigBadBruno on February 16, 2004, 12:55:22 PM
Post by: Binoboy on February 17, 2004, 01:20:33 AM
Quote from: TheBigBadBruno
I thought it was racoon.
It's a racoon-dog. It's more raccoon than dog though.
Plus big tanukis with huge testicles are common in Japanese mythology. Most can grow or shrink their testicles at will and I believe they can use their testicles to fly, though I wonder and yet don't wish to find out how.
Post by: Demosthenes on February 17, 2004, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: Binoboy
Quote from: TheBigBadBrunoI thought it was racoon.
It's a racoon-dog. It's more raccoon than dog though.
Plus big tanukis with huge testicles are common in Japanese mythology. Most can grow or shrink their testicles at will and I believe they can use their testicles to fly, though I wonder and yet don't wish to find out how.
(http://www.novellshareware.com/ubb/graemlins/huh.gif)
Post by: Anonymous on February 17, 2004, 09:23:54 AM
Post by: Demosthenes on June 30, 2004, 03:50:56 PM
I think I'm just going to change my autosignature on my email at work to this:
Demosthenes
Technical Services
demosthenes@workemailaddress.com
123-456-7890
"You see, you stupid fuckers? I TOLD you so."[/b]
Regarding the first post on this thread, this situation has now pretty much come to a head.
Check out this email I got today from a client for whom I had to install this shitty product this week.
Some information has been changed to cover my ass.
Quote
Demosthenes, I got <this crappy product> to work by making the user account a local administrator on the Citrix/Win 2000 server. Note once again that I did not have to do that just yesterday to get this to work as long as the required service was already running, lending more credence to the feeling that this is probably the flakiest application <your company> has ever been associated with. Your current position as I see it is that you're promoting a product with the following characteristics:I told my boss "I don't think it's my job to respond to this. I think it's <the stupid asshole head of our sales department who made this decision>'s job."
- It has no installation script, or even installation instructions.
- It has never been installed the same way twice for your customers.
- It requires manual file copies and manual windows registry changes to be made to run properly, which in our case takes place on a validated file server running a validated ERP package.
- It requires that users authenticate to the server as a local administrator, meaning they have complete control of the server, which in our case compromises the security settings required to use our <other manufacturing product we produce and support>.
- It requires that the database folder structure be the exact opposite of the standard that <your company> has implemented in our environment. (Fixed by you with a workaround.)
- You are unable to directly support <this crappy product>, as your staff has had no training on it beyond rudimentary installation.[/list:u]
Demosthenes, I'm not here to shoot the messenger; in fact, I think you did as well as you could under difficult circumstances, particularly considering that you have worked well past what I'm sure are your normal working hours in order to get this up and running for us, and without any real support from the creators of <this crappy product>, and we greatly appreciate your answering our questions directly. I send this note in hopes that the sales and management staff at <your company> will consider the ramifications of promoting a product to be placed into a biopharmaceutical environment while not considering these type of issues.
Your customers should not be the ones to have to tell you this.
Regards,
<Important Person>
Director of Information Technology
<One Of Our Customers>
importantperson@oneofourcustomers.com
987 654 3210
My boss agreed with me. The proverbial shit is going to hit the proverbial air-moving device.
The best part is, I told the idiots in charge of this disaster these exact same concerns, again and again, six months ago, and I have that well-documented.
I wash my hands of this. :)
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2004, 04:12:48 PM
Post by: reimero on June 30, 2004, 04:15:04 PM
Post by: Demosthenes on June 30, 2004, 04:34:01 PM
Post by: pbsaurus on June 30, 2004, 05:25:24 PM
Pbsaurus
Pbsaurus's Company
pbsaurus@companydomain.net
"To do is to be." -- Plato
"To be is to do." -- Kant
"Do be do be do." -- Sinatra
Note I don't put my phone number because I want the bastards emailing me not calling me. I also employ the tactic of answering voicemails with emails.
Post by: The_FOO on June 30, 2004, 05:51:11 PM
Quote from: Demosthenes
I spent enough time in the military to learn CYA. I practically majored in it in college.
Isn't that what college/university is all about?
Post by: The_FOO on June 30, 2004, 05:54:56 PM
--
talk ; date ; nice ; wine ; more ; touch ; touch ; yes ; more ;unzip ;
mount ; fsck ; fsck ; more ; yes ; yes ; more ; umount ; zip; exit
Hlade's Law:
If you have a difficult task, give it to a lazy person --
they will find an easier way to do it.
My work one is quite dull:
--
The FOO
Senior Network Analyst - Yarmouth NOC
(123)456-7890
the_foo@bigcompanythatpaysme.com
Post by: Demosthenes on June 30, 2004, 06:43:21 PM
Quote
Hlade's Law:
If you have a difficult task, give it to a lazy person --
they will find an easier way to do it.
That's the core of my whole work ethic! :lol:
Post by: dcrog on June 30, 2004, 07:30:34 PM
Had an old man tell me years ago that you may get a lot done if you work with the fastest person in a crew, but you'll learn every shortcut from the laziest bastard out there.
Post by: Demosthenes on June 30, 2004, 07:33:25 PM
Post by: dcrog on June 30, 2004, 08:03:33 PM
Post by: The_FOO on July 01, 2004, 07:46:57 AM
Quote from: Demosthenes
That's the core of my whole work ethic! :lol:
That came up on fortune one day when I logged in. I instantly knew it had to be put into my .sig.
Post by: Demosthenes on July 01, 2004, 08:16:07 AM
Quote from: The_FOO
That came up on fortune one day when I logged in.
I've run across some of the best material that way.
Post by: The_FOO on July 01, 2004, 08:27:03 PM