The Geek Forum
Main Forums => Political Opinions => Topic started by: trekchick on November 01, 2006, 04:00:32 PM
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surprised no one has started this topic yet.
"you study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well, if you dont, you get stuck in iraq"
how does everyone feel about this, especially since i have realized we have some hardcore liberals in here i would like to know their opinions
also, do you think that they might lose some votes for congress, since polls were suggesting democrats will take majority?
discuss
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It was just a butchered joke. Or maybe a Fruedian slip. But either way I don't think anyone in politics would say something like that in public on purpose.
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I'm about as conservative as one can get here...
Mr. Kerry should appologize for offending people - even if he did botch a joke. The fact of the matter is that what he said came across as insulting to military members even if there is an element of truth in what he said.I'm about as conservative as one can get here. I'm so conservative that I think Rush leans too far left sometimes - and he's a douchebag.
Mr. Kerry should apologize for offending people - even if he did botch a joke. The fact of the matter is that what he said came across as insulting to military members even if there is an element of truth in what he said. I don't think, however, that this stupidity will have any affect on the elections. (For the love of $deity, I can't wait until Wednesday)
Julep, I think you're wrong. I think he said exactly what he wanted to say. He just didn't realize how harsh it would sound.
The best thing that could happen would be a divided house. Give the Senate to the D's and let the R's retain the congress. Handicap them all! Let nothing get done! Mwahahahaha!
*cough*
Kerry should get that footinmouth looked at. It has cost him a lot already.
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i mostly agree Bizb, i think their might have been a fw things i dont agree with, but close.
i think he said exactly what he wanted to say, and i agree he needs to apoligise, even if he didnt mean it to be taken offence to, its anything but rude.
and i love how its "bush's admin. that are taken it way to seriously, and knew exactly what he ment" bull. it made me mad, and last i checked, i wsnt on his admin. though that would be pretty cool.
basically, i just didnt like kerry to begin with, and with this, it doesnt help.
i think that the statment might effect voting a bit, not majorly but im sure a bit. I mean, i know there arent many military liberals, but the few that are i think will reconsider their votes, and even people not in the military, im sure that statement will end up swaying some votes.
and about the whole "botched joke" thing, i dont think ANYONE got the "funny" part of it.
but as watching the news today, it seem like even if you are a kerry fan (sorry, i guess not all of us can be right l>) i think everyone or mostly everyone agrees he needs to get some humility, and at least apologise for it, whether you dont see the crappy, odd sence of humor or you do
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well if that is his opinion he is entitled to it and as already mentioned there is a bit of truth in the statement itself. Politically it is of course very stupid.
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If he didn't mean it to speak of the troops, then the joke would have read something like this...
"You study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you become president of the United States."
Now, that's funny, but it doesn't make his point. He was trying to tell the kids to study hard and make something of themselves. Plus, President Bush's GPA at Harvard was better than Kerry's. So, if he wanted to make the joke, it would have been better to say....
"You study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you lose to the worst president we've had in a century and thousands of people die in Iraq."
Or...
"You study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you're up here making jokes about a president that you don't like."
jeee... if he meant it as it came across (perception is reality), then he should stand up and point out the facts that lead him to state such things.
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I don't think that would be hard, you already mentioned yourself that there lies a truth in the statement. Allthough the general opinion in the US is turning against the war, statements like this one hit a sensitive spot. If he doesn't apologize for it he will be of the political stage forever.
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you are entitled to your own opinion, but, if your a polititian, it isnt exactly the smartest thing to say.
and seriously, whats wrong with apoligizing
dang it, and i have forgotten how to put pics up on this. but i have one for you guys. its my default on myspace just look at it
myspace.com/irishmofia
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Karl Rove is high-fiving everyone in sight.
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Kerry is an asshat. Most of the currently in-office Democrats are asshats too. Most of those Democrats who aren't currently in-office but are running for such positions are also asshats.
Did he botch a joke or just express a rather poorly thought out opinion? I don't know and frankly don't care. I'm pretty critical of the criminals currently in the White House, but I'm also glad Kerry didn't get elected president.
I also would like to point out that this isn't going to make John Kerry a washup, politically.
He's been washed up politically for two years, he just hasn't realized it yet.
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He's been washed up politically for two years, he just hasn't realized it yet.
|> Yeah. It's not likely that he'll get elected in his state again. I mean, look how quickly they ditched Ted after the whole murder thing. He's done for sure.<|
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I didn't mean it like that. Plenty of asshat politicians continue to win re-election after being washed up. It just means they're no longer relevent outside of that.
Besides, with the deck stacked so heavily in favour of incumbents in most states, being washed up politically isn't enough to lose your job. You basically just have to go through the motions in most cases and you can keep getting re-elected. You pretty much have to pull a Mark Foley to break that cycle.
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True that. True that.
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Not only is he an asshat, his american dream crap is absurd. Kerry, Bush, most dems and repubs, have never had to really work for anything. They've been born into money, get into Ivy league schools with their grade inflation, and have the connections so that they can have all the power they want. Plenty of intelligent people end up in Iraq not because they're unintelligent, but because they're lower SES and can't get another job, or get into school, because all the legacies take up the slots (especially in Ivy league schools). The social ladder is missing rungs to protect the elite. We see this in politics, education, the job market, society in general. When was the last time you were invited to a country club?
We live in a plutocracy, and a vast majority of the politicians on the national level are vile, bribe-taking, quid pro quo, lazy assed, unethical, lower than pond scum, waste of biological matter.
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You pretty much have to pull a Mark Foley to break that cycle.
I can't be the only one who found that funny.
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surprised no one has started this topic yet.
"you study hard, you do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, you can do well, if you dont, you get stuck in iraq"
how does everyone feel about this, especially since i have realized we have some hardcore liberals in here i would like to know their opinions
also, do you think that they might lose some votes for congress, since polls were suggesting democrats will take majority?
discuss
Kerry's statement is everything I've come to expect from a washed-up Capitol Hill resident. Ever since he lost to arguably one of the worst presidents of recent memory, I had expected him to leave quietly, but I suppose that's too much to ask in the midst of an election.
Whose side is he playing for, anyway? If the Democrats just keep quiet and recite their talking points ad infinitum, they shouldn't have much trouble regaining a majority in the Senate, seeing as a growing number (possibly now a shrinking number) of voters are dissatisfied with the Republican Party. What's this idiot doing deviating from the game plan?
I want to see the Democrats at least get enough seats to cause gridlock. Having the government unable to do much of anything is infinitely better than the agendas either party is trying to push.
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Not only is he an asshat, his american dream crap is absurd. Kerry, Bush, most dems and repubs, have never had to really work for anything. They've been born into money, get into Ivy league schools with their grade inflation, and have the connections so that they can have all the power they want. Plenty of intelligent people end up in Iraq not because they're unintelligent, but because they're lower SES and can't get another job, or get into school, because all the legacies take up the slots (especially in Ivy league schools). The social ladder is missing rungs to protect the elite. We see this in politics, education, the job market, society in general. When was the last time you were invited to a country club?
We live in a plutocracy, and a vast majority of the politicians on the national level are vile, bribe-taking, quid pro quo, lazy assed, unethical, lower than pond scum, waste of biological matter.
Oh boy, do I know this one first hand, and I mean, I'm not even going for millionaire status here, but to even become a reasonably paid professional if your parents weren't is near impossible, just because of the fact that you never have the right connections, you don't have the resources available that other groups do, and college is ridiculously expensive.
But on to the topic at hand. I personally, don't agree with anything relating to it. He's an asshole for refusing to apologize for his bad phrasing, and I honestly don't think he's correct on any level. There isn't a draft going. This isn't Vietnam where all the poor kids get rounded up and shipped off. No one forces you to join the armed forces, it's a choice that you make. There are plenty of nonmilitary routes to follow for those not bound for college.
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I think Kerry's an asshat too (along with most of our politicians), but I can't get away from how so many people say "there's a grain of truth to it." Remember when Bill Maher made the similar comment about "low-lying fruit"? Everyone was outraged, he lost his job, and yet because 9/11 was still fresh on our minds, we couldn't have a dialogue about what he said. Same thing here.
The real war within our borders is the issue of class. Race continues to be used as the red herring to keep the middle and working classes distracted from the real fact of the matter: that the haves have more than ever, and the have-nots have even less. That fact runs across all racial and cultural spectrums. Oh, sure, the working class can now buy cell phones and Starbucks coffee, but it's a false sense of prosperity, in part because most of it is being paid for with credit cards that will never get paid back.
No one forces you to join the armed forces, it's a choice that you make. There are plenty of nonmilitary routes to follow for those not bound for college.
That's an extremely myopic view to take. I live in a small town where generations of families have farmed, logged, fished and mined. They don't leave unless there's a war to go to. The only "respectable" way to get out is to join the military. It's not at all easy to find the routes you speak of when you have no encouragement from your family or friends; even your school doesn't offer the tools you need, i.e. providing an education that can prepare you for college. The pressure to conform to tradition here is enormous.
Certainly there are intelligent, college educated people who join the military. But by far the majority of people who enlist do so because they have no real economic alternatives, or at least the perception of such. Like the 20-year-old kid from our town who died in Iraq a couple of years ago. Talking to his sister, his story is the perfect example of this: his parents spend the majority of their free time at the tavern; he had no encouragement from them to take his studies seriously or pursue college. The military recruiters are so convincing when they came to visit the school; they had grand stories of seeing the world and getting money for college that he didn't have to pay back -- all he had to do was spend a little time "serving" his country, and what a noble thing that is.
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I'm confused. This guy makes a statement like that after he bored us to death for a whole year with his heroic epics in Vietnam?
It was likely a lame "Bush slap" attempt that backfired. Let's face it, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed when it's time to play politics. Like someone previously pointed out, he lost the elections to one of the worse Presidents ever. Because of his background, I'm not even sure he would beleive his own statement. Regardless, of what he personally beleives, the statement itself was clearly offensive but since we live in a free speech society, he can say what ever the hell he wants. Of course, there may be repercussions to what one says. However, history has shown that when it comes to politics, people have a short memory. This won't even be a topic of interest in a month.
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This incident will probably work out real well for the Democrats. Since midterms are all about base turn out, it won’t really hurt Democratic candidates. They now have the perfect scapegoat if they don’t perform as well as they have been projecting. And there is the added benefit of effectively eliminating Kerry as a 2008 potential. Few, if any, Democrats want to give him a second chance.
If I wasn’t so pessimistic about the overall intelligence of the Democratic leadership, I’d think they planed this little “botched joke”.
And for the record, only some people think Bush is a bad President, let alone one of the worst ever.
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that there lies a truth in the statement.
As a matter of fact, the average service person is MORE intelligent and educated than the average citizen. Where do you find that there's "truth" in his statement?
I'll give you a couple of examples right off the bat; and it's so common, that you already KNOW these people:
Demo - Navy - NUCLEAR ENGINEER (or something such as that; not sure the exact MOS name)
12ax7 - Army - Telecommunications Engineer <--now; in my civillian job; which I landed thanks to my Military training. Yes; over $55K a year.
BizB - Not sure but I believe he was Army; but he's now a programmer. |>Yeh; thats a "dumb person's job" |>
Rico - Army - Not sure what his civillian job is; but you know him as well as I; and I would hardly say he's "uneducated".
I could go on, but I would urge you to check out the actual process (ASVAB for one; GED or diploma, as another) and requirements for persons enlisting in the US Military. It MAY have been the less educated waaaaay back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's, but now; if you're a dumbass, you aint getting in.
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If I remember correctly, BizB was Air Force.
I've known a lot of people who served, and not one of them did it because they couldn't afford college, or didn't get good enough grades, or couldn't find a decent job. All but one, joined because they wanted to serve.
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All aside being in the army today is advertised in the US as a boyscout trip. A lot of high school drop outs sign in because it looks so promising. The statement itself of course grieving. It's also an assault on ones who have served in the past.
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A lot of high school drop outs sign in because it looks so promising.
Not really, very few high school drop outs enlist.
Check out: Levels of Education 2004 (http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep2004/enlisted_accessions/education.html) (2004 is the most recent report I could find)
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As a matter of fact, the average service person is MORE intelligent and educated than the average citizen. Where do you find that there's "truth" in his statement?
I'll give you a couple of examples right off the bat; and it's so common, that you already KNOW these people:
Demo - Navy - NUCLEAR ENGINEER (or something such as that; not sure the exact MOS name)
12ax7 - Army - Telecommunications Engineer <--now; in my civillian job; which I landed thanks to my Military training. Yes; over $55K a year.
BizB - Not sure but I believe he was Army; but he's now a programmer. |>Yeh; thats a "dumb person's job" |>
Rico - Army - Not sure what his civillian job is; but you know him as well as I; and I would hardly say he's "uneducated".
I could go on, but I would urge you to check out the actual process (ASVAB for one; GED or diploma, as another) and requirements for persons enlisting in the US Military. It MAY have been the less educated waaaaay back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's, but now; if you're a dumbass, you aint getting in.
If only I still had my personnel folder. I could post some of the write-ups that I received during my stay in the Air Farce. My definition of the military is "The unwilling led by the incompetent."
One of my write-ups went something like this:
Air man BizB miss his CDC test becuse he not has his book. Air man BizB took his book in officer over the week end for to study. He left his book in the officer and no key to get it out when he was gone.
What it should have said was:
Airman BizB was unable to take his correspondence course examination today because he didn't have his book. He had taken his book into the office to study over the weekend and it became locked in said office while he was on an errand. Airman BizB was unable to retrieve the book because the only key to the office was (and still is) missing.
It was written by a Tech Sergeant (E6). He saw nothing wrong with the write-up when I refused to sign it.
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Cynically, I'd say a draft that unfairly garners cannon-fodder from among the disenfranchised is better for society as a whole in the long run. Our modern volunteer military is putting some of our best and most promissing citizens in harm's way.
Either way, it sucks.
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<snip>
how does everyone feel about this, especially since i have realized we have some hardcore liberals in here i would like to know their opinions
<snip>
Although you could be right about there being a few "hardcore liberals" in here, you seriously need to realize that there is a chasm-size difference between hardcore liberals and libertarians.
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+1 for "chasm"
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Demo - Navy - NUCLEAR ENGINEER (or something such as that; not sure the exact MOS name)
I don't remember the NEC (Naval Enlisted Code... Navyspeak for "MOS") for my particular designation, but the title was "Naval Nuclear Propulsion Engineer".
I could go on, but I would urge you to check out the actual process (ASVAB for one; GED or diploma, as another) and requirements for persons enlisting in the US Military. It MAY have been the less educated waaaaay back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's, but now; if you're a dumbass, you aint getting in.
Actually, that's not completely true. Dumbasses get in just fine. But they find themselves sweeping floors and cleaning toilets and acting as human targets when it's war-time. It's the same pitfall, really. They dangle the same glamorous "build your own career, see the world and get paid to do it" carrot for everyone, but you have to be smart AND bust your ass AND (most importantly) keep your nose clean and be a good soldier to get a good job in the US Military.
In short, you get out of it what you put into it, dumbass or not.
If you're a dumbass, you end up with the shit-end of the stick, regardless of what branch, and regardless of your test scores or education.
Not only that, but you can be plenty smart and have one or two irresponsible moments and end up with that same aforementioned shit-end. I went through the Naval Nuclear Program with a lot of guys who had over 90 on their ASVAB tests that wound up failing a test or two and got stuck chipping paint at sub-E4 pay grades.
And they failed the tests in school not because they were stupid, just irresponsible. In the Navy Nuke program, they make sure everyone that qualifies for it has the smarts to pass. Whether or not they do pass is a matter of personal choice, really.
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Not only that, but you can be plenty smart and have one or two irresponsible moments and end up with that same aforementioned shit-end. I went through the Naval Nuclear Program with a lot of guys who had over 90 on their ASVAB tests that wound up failing a test or two and got stuck chipping paint at sub-E4 pay grades.
/me raises hand holding 87 on ASVAB score and General Discharge Under Honorable Conditions papers.
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My condolences. Rest assured, however, that you are in excellent company. I served with a lot of good men who found similar fates.
We started out with 45 people in my Nuclear Field A-School class. 5 of us ended up completing the Naval Nuclear Program a couple of years down the road. It has a really high attrition rate, and those that wash out end up with the aforementioned "shit-end of the stick", for the most part.
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My error was saying "Fuck you" to a 9 year old black kid that had just called me a "Dumb white ass honkey mother fucker". What I should have done was killed the little fuck.
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My error was saying "Fuck you" to a 9 year old black kid that had just called me a "Dumb white ass honkey mother fucker". What I should have done was killed the little fuck.
No because that would make you a racist and as such, worse than Hitler. :-P
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I think Kerry's an asshat too (along with most of our politicians), but I can't get away from how so many people say "there's a grain of truth to it." Remember when Bill Maher made the similar comment about "low-lying fruit"? Everyone was outraged, he lost his job, and yet because 9/11 was still fresh on our minds, we couldn't have a dialogue about what he said. Same thing here.
The real war within our borders is the issue of class. Race continues to be used as the red herring to keep the middle and working classes distracted from the real fact of the matter: that the haves have more than ever, and the have-nots have even less. That fact runs across all racial and cultural spectrums. Oh, sure, the working class can now buy cell phones and Starbucks coffee, but it's a false sense of prosperity, in part because most of it is being paid for with credit cards that will never get paid back.
Karl would be proud.
That's an extremely myopic view to take. I live in a small town where generations of families have farmed, logged, fished and mined. They don't leave unless there's a war to go to. The only "respectable" way to get out is to join the military. It's not at all easy to find the routes you speak of when you have no encouragement from your family or friends; even your school doesn't offer the tools you need, i.e. providing an education that can prepare you for college. The pressure to conform to tradition here is enormous.
Certainly there are intelligent, college educated people who join the military. But by far the majority of people who enlist do so because they have no real economic alternatives, or at least the perception of such. Like the 20-year-old kid from our town who died in Iraq a couple of years ago. Talking to his sister, his story is the perfect example of this: his parents spend the majority of their free time at the tavern; he had no encouragement from them to take his studies seriously or pursue college. The military recruiters are so convincing when they came to visit the school; they had grand stories of seeing the world and getting money for college that he didn't have to pay back -- all he had to do was spend a little time "serving" his country, and what a noble thing that is.
You know, I didn't say it's as easy for some as it for others, because I damn well know that isn't true. But you always have a choice, in the case you mentioned, they could always go into the farming industry or whatnot. Trust me man, I know how it works, I'm the only one within a 10 mile radius of my house to go to college and successfully complete their first year. Most of my friends dropped out and are working at the mall or 7-11. A few did join the army, but most chose crappy jobs for now instead of it. Now I know the army is pushed more in certain places, but that doesn't really specify wealth. The military is pushed more in some areas period regardless of wealth or education. Plenty of wealthy people attend West Point every year and then end up in Iraq. It's a bullshit statement to the core.
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It MAY have been the less educated waaaaay back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's
I'm basing my statement on my point on my personal experience; as the last three years I served I was an instructor; this was in '93/'94/'95. I spent a total of 10 years in service (including National Guard time); I saw it change with my own eyes. When I first enlisted ('85) it was true; they didnt really press hard for smarts. They basically took who they could get, as the military in the early 80's was NOT AT ALL 'popular' or a 'noble' endeavor (according to the media; and -thus, the general populace).
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My enlistment started in 1984. - fyi.
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As a quick side note, I found this to be funny. A few months ago one of the branches of the military (I think it was the Army) was saying that they were way below their recruitment targets. As a result of this, they lowered the entrance standards. Within the last two weeks, I read an article about how the Army is all happy now because they've now met their recruitment targets for the year. Thought it was somewhat relevant to this particular discussion.
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My enlistment started in 1984. - fyi.
I covered that.
back in the 60's/70's/ and part of the 80's
When I first enlisted ('85) it was true; they didnt really press hard for smarts. They basically took who they could get
As a quick side note, I found this to be funny. A few months ago one of the branches of the military (I think it was the Army) was saying that they were way below their recruitment targets. As a result of this, they lowered the entrance standards. Within the last two weeks, I read an article about how the Army is all happy now because they've now met their recruitment targets for the year. Thought it was somewhat relevant to this particular discussion.
Which supports what I was saying exactly; especially since, as you mentioned, they've lowered the standards only "a few months ago". So does Demo's post; to "fail" out of a NUCLEAR PROPULSION school doesn't really qualify as "uneducated". Just to be admitted to that class one would have to be of above average intelligence.
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Except with the new lower standrad, they'll calling it the NUCULAR PROPUSLON skool
Man.. that was so John Kerry of me.
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lol
:-D
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12 - I was pointing out that you were right on with your statement. When I got out, there was a waiting list to join. That's why I got out so easily.
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Gotcha.
< /topic >
grrr.. this hotel's Internet connection sux, btw.
(in Dallas for two weeks of more PBX schooling)
Plus, it's over 100$ a night; and its NON SMOKING. Totally.
Fuck this - I wont stay here next time. 100$ a night, not only should I be able to
smoke in my room; but I should have a hotel rep bringing me cigarrettes. Asshats with holes...
< topic >
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Yeah, I was in part implying that there is more than one way to apply dumbassery when you're talking about military people. Some of it is dumbassery in terms of just not being too good with the brain.
Some of it is having plenty of smarts but doing things that qualify you as a dumbass, which get you the same shit jobs.
You're right though, they fluctuate as far as requirements depending on recruiting success or failure. When I went in you could still get into the Navy with a 36 on the ASVAB... granted, I'm not sure what job you would qualify for with a test score like that. Even broom pushers at the time had some other specialty, usually.
But that was in the early 90s, and I was largely insulated from the Stupids while I was active duty, because I served in 100% nuclear duty stations.
They don't let the Stupids in those, so I can't honestly say how many there were. What few I did encounter didn't understand us, so they didn't talk to us.
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ROFL@ "dumbassery"!
I probably should've used a different term in regards to "you ain't getting in", as one can be intelligent AND a dumbass, certainly.
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My condolences. Rest assured, however, that you are in excellent company. I served with a lot of good men who found similar fates.
We started out with 45 people in my Nuclear Field A-School class. 5 of us ended up completing the Naval Nuclear Program a couple of years down the road. It has a really high attrition rate, and those that wash out end up with the aforementioned "shit-end of the stick", for the most part.
This is slightly off topic, but Demo, are you familiar with nuclear submarines then? I was wondering the other day how they can stay down for months at a time when the oxygen they breathe is from the water, yet breathing pure oxygen will make you sick in relatively short periods of time?
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I believe they scrub the air that's already in there.
"The Contamination Control Assembly (SBG) removes carbon dioxide and acid gases by means of a chemical reaction with lithium hydroxide (LiOH). Odours and off-gassing products are removed by means of activated charcoal filters and catalysts, and particulates and aerosols by means of a particle filter. The filter also prevents LiOH dust from leaving the filter."
from here:
http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/hvac/dornier/ (http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/hvac/dornier/)
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Yeah I was aware of that, the whole removing of toxins bit, but I was wondering how they were able to breathe pure oxygen for so long without any nitrogen or the other things that we're all used to up on the surface.
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:? Pure oxygen? It's just regular AIR. There's no pure oxygen.
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:? Pure oxygen? It's just regular AIR. There's no pure oxygen.
But isn't the "air" on board split from hydrogen in the water? That WOULD actually be pure oxygen.
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I guess I'm not too suprised this Kerry thing got so much press. The Republicans needed something to remind folks how bad for the military Democrats are. Of course, I think there are several Dems happy about this too. Hillary jumps to mind, since this'll help her bid for President in 2008, I think. Personally, I think he was trying to crack a joke about the President. Even if he wasn't, it's hardly a secret that the majority of military recruits are uneducated. The military is a great way to get an education and break out of dead-end towns. Even if you look at it in the worst light, I don't see how you could say he was saying military folks aren't smart or capable. To me, this is just another case where the media read too far into something that didn't exist. It didn't help that it came at a time the Reps needed it the most. Think you kinda have to admire the way they turned this into a hot topic and twisted it to their advantage.
Rico - Army - Not sure what his civillian job is; but you know him as well as I; and I would hardly say he's "uneducated".
Contracted to the gov for computer stuff. Making way more than the Army paid me :)
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Pssshh.... Whatever, go to school and do your homework Rico. You wouldn't want to be stuck in Iraq again, would you? :x |>
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But isn't the "air" on board split from hydrogen in the water? That WOULD actually be pure oxygen.
No, air is brought with you underwater. Not pure oxygen split from water molecules. It's just that that air is "scrubbed" by an apparatus similar to what 12AX7 described and linked.
As for the rest of that process, I don't remember a lot of the technical details. I studied the scrubbers as closely as I needed to get my sub-surface quals, and not any closer... it wasn't my primary job. Most of my focus was on propulsion and ship's power generation, not auxiliaries.
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Demo, I've got a good buddy here in San Antonio that used to be a sub guy too. I think he was propulsion as well, actually. Whatever it was his current job has nothing to do with nuclear power... lol I think any military service is honorable and a great thing to do for your country. I think the smart thing to do is to find something that'll get you a job when you get out, though. :p Of course, it's all what you make of it. Any experience is good experience if you put a lot into it and word it right on your resume.
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No, air is brought with you underwater. Not pure oxygen split from water molecules. It's just that that air is "scrubbed" by an apparatus similar to what 12AX7 described and linked.
As for the rest of that process, I don't remember a lot of the technical details. I studied the scrubbers as closely as I needed to get my sub-surface quals, and not any closer... it wasn't my primary job. Most of my focus was on propulsion and ship's power generation, not auxiliaries.
Oh okay thanks dude, that was bothering the hell out of me. I can't remember where I heard that nutty oxygen generation thing though.
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Demo, I've got a good buddy here in San Antonio that used to be a sub guy too. I think he was propulsion as well, actually. Whatever it was his current job has nothing to do with nuclear power... lol
Yeah, mine doesn't either. I know very few ex-Navy Nukes who do anything in the private sector that stems directly from that. I do have one buddy who I believe is still working for Virginia Power doing reactor stuff, and another who is working for a private research firm and is on his way to getting his PhD.
I, on the other hand, spurned the whole subject and am working in IT. I think it was a better option for me, in the long run. I don't think I'd have been happy working for a power plant, doing research (private or for the government) and I know I'd have despised being entangled in the academic community.
And that pretty much sums up what you can do with a nuclear background. So Information Technology it is! :D
I think any military service is honorable and a great thing to do for your country. I think the smart thing to do is to find something that'll get you a job when you get out, though. :p Of course, it's all what you make of it. Any experience is good experience if you put a lot into it and word it right on your resume.
Damn skippy. I've always gotten good reactions to my Navy experience on my resume. That's not going away any time soon.
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going back a page, i thought what the army did with the whole "lowering standards" thing, wasnt lowering the standards to actually get in, i thought it was basic was supposed to be lighter
but hey, i guess there is a first time to be wrong.
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Damn skippy. I've always gotten good reactions to my Navy experience on my resume. That's not going away any time soon.
If there is one thing people generalize about the military, its dependablity. A clean military record looks good because of that generaliztion. You have kinda proved you'll show up on time and do a good job. I'm not saying that this works for everyone. Its just an "in general" thing.
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If there is one thing people generalize about the military, its dependablity. A clean military record looks good because of that generaliztion. You have kinda proved you'll show up on time and do a good job. I'm not saying that this works for everyone. Its just an "in general" thing.
That's at least part of it. If you're not reliable or dependable, the military will kick your ass, up to and including an OTH (Other Than Honorable) or BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge, a.k.a. a "Big Chicken Dinner" as I've heard it referred to).
And people with OTHs and BCDs don't generally list their military experience on their resumes, because all it takes is one or two quick phone calls to find out that they didn't get an honorable discharge.
I list mine because of the reliability/dependability element, but the nuclear background makes me look SMRT.
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going back a page, i thought what the army did with the whole "lowering standards" thing, wasnt lowering the standards to actually get in, i thought it was basic was supposed to be lighter
but hey, i guess there is a first time to be wrong.
Well then, please allow me the pleasure of informing you that you're wrong. The army relaxed its restrictions against high-school drop-outs and increased the percentage of new recruits who are considered Category IV. Category IV applicants are those who scored in the lowest third on the ASVAB.
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Yeah, but they're meeting their recruiting goals now. So it's all....well, it's all something.
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I was just reading the Snopes what's new page and allegedly he was supposed to say "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren’t smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."
But i as i was poking around Snopes and i saw something that definately made me laugh out loud.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerrysign.asp (http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerrysign.asp)
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Well then, please allow me the pleasure of informing you that you're wrong. The army relaxed its restrictions against high-school drop-outs and increased the percentage of new recruits who are considered Category IV. Category IV applicants are those who scored in the lowest third on the ASVAB.
There's a little more to it than that, but that's a blunt way of putting it. The Army will allow you in if you have a GED, and now they'll even help you get it from what I hear. The big relax in test scores is a little more complicated than just a general "must score this high to get in," though. The Army uses a score called your GT(calculated from parts of the ASVAB) to determine what specialties you're qualified for. Believe it or not, to be straight-leg infantry, you actually need to have a decent score. Petrolium specialists and cooks, on the other hand don't need near the same qualifications to do their jobs. So, they've lowered standards on many of those MOSs in order to fill them faster, that way they can move the smarter folks into more difficult jobs. My complaint is that they've made it easier for folks to get into jobs that are too important to lower standards for. Take my old job, for example. When I joined, we had to take another test, beyond the ASVAB, to prove that we were capable of processing information on the level needed to perform our duties. They no longer require that test, and the fail rate in Advanced Individual Training(AIT) shows the results.
You're still partly right, trekchick. Standards haven't really been lowered in Basic, that I know of, but it seems like the training itself isn't as intensive as it used to be. From what the newer guys have told me, it sounds like there's more classroom time and not as much marching and outdoors stuff as there used to be. Plus the actual physical training isn't supposed to be as intensive as it was in the past.
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You're still partly right, trekchick. Standards haven't really been lowered in Basic, that I know of, but it seems like the training itself isn't as intensive as it used to be. From what the newer guys have told me, it sounds like there's more classroom time and not as much marching and outdoors stuff as there used to be. Plus the actual physical training isn't supposed to be as intensive as it was in the past.
Also, nominally they haven't lowered the standards in a lot of the MOS training at AIT, but -in actuality-... let's just say that I saw a lot of people graduate from 97B (counterintelligence) and 97E (interrogater) AIT who were incompetent enough that I'd fear for the safety of people who would have to work with them in a -noncombat- capacity...
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DoC! How are you, my man? Haven't seen you but the once since you left for Basic. Doing well?
(Sorry for the thread jack :P )
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DoC! How are you, my man? Haven't seen you but the once since you left for Basic. Doing well?
(Sorry for the thread jack :P )
Moderately.
I am apparently too crazy to be in the Army, though (despite being the only remotely sane or effective person in my unit) and they sent me home.
So now I work at a college in the Classics department. I like it better. Less stupid people.
You?
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You?
Doing well, myself. Just finished my enlistment and now contracted to the government. Pays way better. lol
Don't worry about the crazy part. Most of us go crazy before too long anyway. Think it has something to do with the forced multiple personality thing. You know, be one guy at work, but go home and forget that guy exists and be some one else? I'm sure other stuff doesn't help too.