Topic: iPod God? (Read 4459 times)

seannyboy · « **on:** July 20, 2005, 12:40:30 AM »

I recently purchased a new 20 gigabyte iPod and while shopping around, I noticed the huge variety in mp3 players. The one that caught my eye was the Creative Zen Xtra. It was 40 gigabytes and more than 60 dollars cheaper than the iPod. I was wondering if there is any big different between the two. Is the iPod actually worth the money or did I fall victim to the advertising world.

johnus · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:07:33 AM »

I just use my PSP :p

Demosthenes · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:33:24 AM »

I had been wanting an MP3 player for a long time, and I did a LOT of research.

Basically put, when it all comes down to it, whatever works for you is what's best. For me, however, I had some major issues with the iPods... first of all, they're really expensive for what you get.

Secondly, they require lots of hacking in order to fix a major problem with them, namely that they have a broken OS on them that requires the use of a special application to load music on them, which of course doesn't work in Linux at all.

While there are some open-source apps available that run on Linux that can be used to load iPods, that seems to be just a band-aid for a larger issue that really can only be fixed by wiping out the default operating system that comes pre-loaded on new iPods and installing a custom version of Linux on them.

Not interested in going to that kind of work just to have a fully functional MP3 player, I looked at other hard-drive based players on the market, and was pretty disappointed with EVERYTHING out there except for one player that stood out well above every other one I looked at.

As a result of that research, I bought an Archos Gmini 400 a couple months ago.

It's a 20gb hard-drive based device, slightly smaller than an iPod. It plays MP3, WMA and WAV, and has a full color 720x480 screen on which you can play video (divx or xvid encoding). The Gmini 400 uses USB 2.0 for data transfer, so it's speedy to load (I put 12 gigs of music on mine in around 15 minutes). The internal rechargeable battery gives me around 10 hours of music play, or around 3 hours of video without a recharge.

And unlike the iPod, it works in Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X without having to use any special drivers or applications for loading it.

Oh yeah, and it cost me $275 after the mail-in rebate.

It can also display photos and it comes pre-loaded with several games. It has a built-in Compact Flash card reader on it as well, so if you use a digital camera with a CF card, you can offload photos onto the Gmini and keep taking pictures.

Best $275 I ever spent. I've gotten a ton of use out of it already.

TerrorDronze · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2005, 12:28:30 PM »

I actually have a memorex MP3 player that suits me fine. internal memory holds just under 70 songs, depending on length and quality, has a built in FM radio, and uses those nifty little SD cards. It's not much, but for $60 and going on it's 3rd year of use, it's pretty nice. and light.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2005, 12:41:20 PM »

I love my 40GB Ipod and like Itunes. I never got around to becoming a Linux geek so it hasn't been a problem.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:37:23 PM »

Well, it's still an issue in Windows too. You can drag and drop music files to an iPod in Windows Explorer, but you can't play them on it. That's borked.

The files are there, but won't play?

Broken or just bad design. Or both.

xolik · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:11:16 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

Well, it's still an issue in Windows too. You can drag and drop music files to an iPod in Windows Explorer, but you can't play them on it.

Why would I do that, though? If you have your MP3s already imported into iTunes, you just select the ones you want on your iPod and hit the synch button. I'm using iTunes for Windows and I haven't had an issue with my iPod yet. Even after dropping it frequently while on the treadmil, thus causing it to hit the moving rubber 'road' and make it go flying across the gym floor. That's not embarassing at all. Nope.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:20:34 PM »

Why would I want to use iTunes?

The device itself should be capable of playing the files without having to interact with any other software on your computer than the file system itself. After all, the player itself is what does the playing. Everything else is just a matter of moving files from one place to another.

Archos managed that simple thing just fine. On my Archos player, you can make a playlist simply by browsing the files directly on the device through the interface, or you can load an existing playlist, or you can load things by genre/artist/album name via the app that resides on the device itself that reads ID3 tags of the files you currently have stored on it.

iPods could do this easily (read files directly)... Apple just doesn't want them to.

Why?

You don't have to tell me... I know the answer to that. It's so they can prevent people from using it in certain ways. If you HAVE to funnel everything through iTunes, they can control the content if they decide to exert that kind of control later.

Suppose they make it so future versions of iTunes will only handle DRM-infested files. If the only way to load your iPod is via iTunes, that means that the device itself is useless if you don't like DRM in your music.

The best part is, they wouldn't even need to update the version of iTunes in the firmware on the iPods themselves; all they'd need to do is push out a software update of it for peoples' computers and they'd be good to go.

Don't like it? Too bad. The previous versions of iTunes will no longer work with the iTunes Music Store!

It's just another great way of shoving DRM down everyone's throats, and since most people don't really give a crap, they will likely be able to do it with very little loss in sales.

Paranoid? Yeah, probably a little. But iTMS sales are peaking, and as soon as they start slacking off any, you know Jobs is going to be under pressure from the RIAA again to stop letting all those goddamned internet pirates play unprotected music on these iPods that induce people to commit copyright infringement!

By the way, the Archos Gmini 400 can be loaded and synchronized with programs residing on your computer as well (WinAmp, MusicMatch Jukebox) -- there's even a plugin you can load so it can be synched up with iTunes if that's what you use.

The difference is, it's not necessary or the ONLY way to do it. Since I don't really spend much time listening to music on my computer itself, I don't bother with something like that. I just mount the device as a USB hard drive (in Windows OR Linux) and copy+paste the files onto it.

If the iPod were capable of that, I might well have bought one, despite the lack of features and bloated pricetag. They are still quite impressive little nosehair clippers, but the prospect of being forced to use a proprietary app as the ONLY means of using it just tells me that it's not just broken, but intentionally broken.

Not for me.

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pbsaurus · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:53:25 PM »

I've never bought any song online. I do all my ripping from CDs or downloading from bands' sites. So no problem there. I do see your point however and glad you found one that better fit your requirements.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:59:35 PM »

Quote from: pbsaurus

I've never bought any song online. I do all my ripping from CDs or downloading from bands' sites. So no problem there.

Right, and that's fine... it's like I said before, everyone's needs are slightly different.

That said, however, if I were you I'd keep an eye on Apple when they update iTunes and make sure you still have the install for the old version before you update it (if at all).

You never know when they might pull some shit like that. The next thing you know, you'll get a prompt saying something like "iTunes will now upgrade your existing audio collection to be compatible with the FairPlay copyright protection system" and if you don't do it, it won't read your files or load your iPod from that point on unless it's something hobbled with their DRM.

Quote

I do see your point however and glad you found one that better fit your requirements.

Well that's just it. The Archos players are all truly cross-platform, largely because they don't use anything too crazy for a file system on the device itself (it mounts as a FAT32 drive, so it's readable/writable via Windows, Linux or Mac), and they don't make it usable only via certain programs -- though they make that available as an option -- so it's really the best of both worlds, for me anyway.

I can copy music to/from it at home from any of my linux boxes, and while I'm at work I can copy music to/from it via Windows if I need to. No problems.

xolik · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:29:45 PM »

Interesting...interesting...but tell us what you REALLY think, Demo!

Demosthenes · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:34:23 PM »

Hey, I did a lot of research on the subject before I bought anything. Initially I was dead-set on buying an iPod, until I found out how they worked.

To think I almost blew $100 more on something that would have pissed me off that bad!

From my POV, I only narrowly averted being ripped off by buying something that is intentionally broken by design. I expect better from the likes of Apple, that's why I feel strongly about it.

xolik · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2005, 04:22:31 PM »

But it's so pretty.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2005, 04:29:15 PM »

They really are, I agree. Can't argue with Apple's sense of design and interface.

The Archos player is pretty cool, too, with its aluminum case and fairly intuitive controls. But it doesn't hold a candle to Apple's aesthetics where the iPod is concerned.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2005, 06:42:58 PM »

Oh I have the OEM software which is a couple versions back and I have my files burned to CD (plus I have the original CDs) so if it comes to that, I'll be ready. But it would probably piss me off enough to invest in the next big thing and dump apple like a gimongous turd.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2005, 06:51:14 PM »

You know, on the subject of lock-in, I have to wonder what all these millions of people who buy music regularly from iTMS are going to do if they want to buy some other music player in the future that's not made by Apple.

FairPlay, as I'm aware of it, is not something Apple is willing to license out; so unless people re-rip (and chew their bitrate up even more) to get rid of the DRM and put it into a less proprietary format, they spent money on music that dies with their iPod.

I don't get why anyone would do that.

xolik · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2005, 06:56:44 PM »

I avoid that entirely by not buying music from their store. I just buy the CDs then rip them into iTunes.

Demosthenes · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:23:35 PM »

Damn you, Xolly... you beat me to that avatar by mere minutes.

xolik · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:04:15 PM »

Quote from: Demosthenes

Damn you, Xolly... you beat me to that avatar by mere minutes.

I couldn't resist. This one ranks right up there with my old pope one.

hudders · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2005, 05:35:34 AM »

i agree wholeheartedly with demo - why anyone wants to be forced into using a particular piece of software in a particular way is beyond me.

people are just lazy in this day and age and will take any shit you care to throw at them.

Dark Shade · « **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:24:51 AM »

Hmm...this Archos player sounds lovely. I've been considering purchasing an iPod for some time, so this thread intrigued me. Now, with the clever help of Demo, I've realized that the iPod really isn't what I'm looking for. The trick now is to find one of these Archos devices. Would I be able to buy one, say, from some consumer retail outlet? Or would I need to buy one online?

Hell, it's cheaper than an iPod, looks nicer, holds around the same amount, and it's easier to use. What's not to love about this thing? I'm absolutely sold. Screw the iPod, I'm buying an Archos Gmini!

Thanks Demo!

Demosthenes · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2005, 08:44:42 AM »

By "clever help", you mean my anti-iPod rant?

I don't know of any brick-and-mortar retail establishments that carry them. I bought mine from Amazon.

I would advise you to wait though. They just put the price back up... a week ago it was as low as $249 (and Archos themselves offer a $25 mail-in rebate). If you watch for a while, they might do it again. They occasionally put stuff like that on sale and you never know when.

Dark Shade · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2005, 12:53:01 PM »

Yeah, the anti-iPod rant completely shut down all positive things I've ever though about them. I'm finished with 'em...for good.

Guess I'll check around online, wait for the price to drop a lil'. Even at that price, I still believe that's an extremely good deal for what you're getting. I couldn't ask for anything more.

Again Demo, thanks for the help. This will save me many frustrating hours and a little money in the long run. I really appreciate it. Kudos to you, my friend.

pbsaurus · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2005, 01:18:37 PM »

That's a very nice avatar.

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Author Topic: iPod God? (Read 4459 times)